Allen Building Crisis: Tape #8
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
- | As a mob of people in force, I will not | 0:03 |
deal with you that way, I cannot. | 0:08 | |
But you know that. | 0:10 | |
Oh I've heard many things before too. | 0:14 | |
I would like to say these things | 0:20 | |
hoping they have some meaning for you. | 0:23 | |
The primary concern that brings you here today and the. | 0:31 | |
Wait. | 0:42 | |
Don't go running too hard. | 0:52 | |
Let's pick out one concern about many. | 1:03 | |
The concern of this university for all its students, | 1:07 | |
your particular concern and mine for our black students | 1:11 | |
and for other students, too. | 1:19 | |
That's the one thing I hope you will let me keep clear | 1:24 | |
in what I say to you. | 1:30 | |
Simply that the justice | 1:33 | |
we must do and with all the faults | 1:39 | |
of this country are trying to do | 1:41 | |
has got to be justice for the whole country. | 1:46 | |
The end of the political speech right there | 1:51 | |
except that I happen to mean it | 1:54 | |
and I think all of you know the things | 1:58 | |
that we have been trying to do. | 2:00 | |
Some that we have in fact done, some that we had done | 2:05 | |
some months ago before a group of demands | 2:10 | |
were presented to me a few days ago. | 2:15 | |
Now my concern when I talk about the whole university | 2:23 | |
is that we have to have | 2:32 | |
a legitimate chance to take the questions raised | 2:36 | |
one by one and try to see how they can be | 2:43 | |
either solved one by one or understood | 2:48 | |
as insoluble right now. | 2:51 | |
Let me take a very specific example for you. | 2:55 | |
The demands which were presented to me | 2:59 | |
to use the words of those of you who gave them to me, | 3:02 | |
included a recommendation about a certain percentage | 3:08 | |
of black students in the university by a certain time. | 3:11 | |
If one puts this demand in that form, | 3:17 | |
it's not one that I have either the authority | 3:22 | |
or the judgment to commit the university to. | 3:26 | |
If one can discuss that question in some other way, | 3:32 | |
then I think it can be | 3:36 | |
handled with reason. | 3:40 | |
I don't think you can just take a percentage and say, | 3:44 | |
"Yes, we've committed to a percentage." | 3:47 | |
I don't think that's justice for those whom you take | 3:50 | |
or for other students in the university, | 3:54 | |
therefore for the place as a whole | 3:57 | |
I don't think it's a wise way to go. | 3:59 | |
It is the pressure created by that kind of absolute demand | 4:03 | |
and then the occupation of a building | 4:10 | |
that gives one no room to move and no chance | 4:14 | |
to solve a problem no matter how much he wants to. | 4:19 | |
- | They did it at Brandai. | 4:26 |
- | They did it at Brandai. | 4:27 |
- | They are still at work doing it at Brandai. | 4:29 |
(crowd murmuring and laughing) | 4:32 | |
I would like a little time to work on the request. | 4:42 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 4:46 | |
And I would also like, we can't do it this way. | 4:50 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 4:53 | |
Alright, alright, and I have | 4:56 | |
quite courage enough to have said it some time ago, too. | 5:00 | |
I don't need your reminder. | 5:03 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 5:06 | |
No, you all knew that. | 5:09 | |
- | I thank you, Dr. Knight. | 5:13 |
- | Will you grant amnesty? | 5:15 |
- | Dr. Knight, this university was committed | 5:17 |
to the defense of blacks 12 years ago, | 5:19 | |
why can't you commit to it now? | 5:21 | |
- | It's too big now. | 5:23 |
- | Maybe people could live in your house. | 5:26 |
(crowd murmuring and laughing) | 5:28 | |
- | That would be an easy solution. | 5:34 |
- | What about amnesty? | 5:36 |
- | Yeah, what about amnesty? | 5:37 |
Can't you say something about that? | 5:41 | |
- | Yes I can. | 5:42 |
- | Quiet. | 5:43 |
- | As I recall it, when some of you | 5:46 |
were in Allen Building two days ago | 5:50 | |
this question came up and it was made clear at that time | 5:52 | |
that amnesty was not a condition of your leaving, | 5:57 | |
am I not correct? | 6:01 | |
I cannot offer it now. | 6:03 | |
Crowd | Why. | 6:05 |
(crowd murmuring) | 6:08 | |
- | The problem is you've never really shown good faith. | 6:13 |
All you're doing is what you think you always have to do | 6:16 | |
to placate a few people but if you really wanted to show us | 6:18 | |
that you wanted to do something, you could do a lot | 6:21 | |
of things right now. | 6:23 | |
(applauding) | 6:24 | |
- | You could call the police in a few hours. | 6:34 |
- | You can cancel your radio program. | 6:36 |
- | Nobody's calling the police. | 6:38 |
- | I can, they're down the road. | 6:41 |
(crowd laughing) | 6:43 | |
- | You will give us time to work on collective bargaining | 6:46 |
last year and we don't have it, baby. | 6:48 | |
- | I see you have your, yes, yes. | 6:52 |
(crowd murmuring) | 6:57 | |
- | This is the same cold gray box that we're hearing today. | 7:00 |
Now I would like for you to say why you can't meet | 7:04 | |
these very reasonable demands that are made on you | 7:09 | |
by the black people that the more progressive universities | 7:11 | |
in this country are making at this time. | 7:14 | |
- | Right on. | 7:16 |
(applauding) | 7:17 | |
- | And I will give you this answer. | 7:27 |
That we have met several of those demands as you call them | 7:30 | |
and you know it and we will work with the others | 7:35 | |
as fast as we can if we have that chance. | 7:40 | |
- | We've already heard that answer. | 7:43 |
- | Alright, it's the truth. | 7:46 |
(crowd murmuring) | 7:47 | |
It's the truth. | 7:48 | |
- | That's the attitude that we've had the whole goddamn time. | 7:50 |
- | Why weren't the blacks allowed to participate in this, | 7:53 |
that's what we want to know and why can't junior faculty | 7:57 | |
members who have some touch with the students | 8:00 | |
participate in the whole thing, this is what we want. | 8:03 | |
(applause) | 8:06 | |
- | Right on. | 8:08 |
- | Rap to em, Chuck. | 8:14 |
- | Dr. Knight. | 8:20 |
- | No, yeah, good. | |
- | Here are the demands, address yourself to each one of them | 8:23 |
as you've so committed to have done. | 8:25 | |
- | I'd like to go back to this question first. | 8:28 |
Alright, so do I, so do I | 8:34 | |
and I'm sorry that the things that have been done | 8:40 | |
between April and now simply fit your idea | 8:42 | |
of nothing at all because they have been considerable. | 8:48 | |
- | You're treading water. | 8:54 |
- | No we're not just treading water. | 8:56 |
Now let's take a look at these right now | 8:59 | |
and let's look at the people who have to be involved | 9:05 | |
in each of them and you say, | 9:10 | |
"Why can't certain groups be involved?" | 9:13 | |
They can and they are and they should be. | 9:17 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 9:21 | |
- | To justify you, not the constituency of this university, | 9:22 |
the students and the black people. | 9:25 | |
- | In many cases, they are recommended or selected by others | 9:30 |
as recommendations to me which I take. | 9:35 | |
- | I'd like to start with number one. | 9:40 |
This is the first demand and this what we gonna do | 9:42 | |
and that's the way we gonna do it and that's how | 9:47 | |
we gonna do it and then I will give y'all | 9:49 | |
a written statement telling y'all that's what we gonna do, | 9:51 | |
do that. | 9:54 | |
(applause) | 9:55 | |
- | Right on, right on. | 9:57 |
- | Now, I know. | 10:01 |
I will comment as one person | 10:06 | |
on these questions. | 10:09 | |
Alright, alright hold it. | 10:12 | |
If you think I have just all by myself the authority | 10:15 | |
to say, "Sure, let it be so," that is not the truth. | 10:19 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 10:25 | |
That's not the truth, either. | 10:27 | |
- | Let him talk. | 10:29 |
- | I'll tell you what I feel | 10:32 |
can be done, what I feel has been done, | 10:36 | |
what I feel we can reasonably work on, | 10:39 | |
what I feel is not possible at this time | 10:42 | |
or simply not reasonable and I don't see | 10:46 | |
that any one man can do more than that. | 10:50 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 10:53 | |
Alright. | 10:58 | |
After a great deal of pressure. | 11:02 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 11:05 | |
You wanted to know about these questions I believe. | 11:09 | |
- | Just answer the questions today. | 11:13 |
- | That's exactly what I'm trying to do. | 11:16 |
(crowd murmuring) | 11:18 | |
(crowd laughing) | 11:25 | |
Alright. | 11:28 | |
This request | 11:31 | |
for the Department of Afro-American Studies. | 11:34 | |
As you know, the committee of the faculty and students | 11:37 | |
has been working on this for some time. | 11:40 | |
- | What students? | 11:42 |
(crowd murmuring) | 11:43 | |
- | And it is just reported to me. | 11:46 |
Not today, the committee was establish back in the fall | 11:51 | |
that you all knew about. | 11:53 | |
- | Knew about? | 11:55 |
- | Dr. Knight, can you answer your replies after you | 11:58 |
give them each time, so we understand | 12:01 | |
why they're not satisfied because I think | 12:04 | |
that's the question on everybody's mind | 12:06 | |
(papers rustling) | 12:08 | |
so would it be alright if he sort of answered them | 12:11 | |
afterwards and explained why they're not satisfied? | 12:14 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 12:16 | |
- | Alright, alright. | 12:18 |
(applause) | 12:21 | |
- | Let's listen to him, let's hear about stuff on the ground. | 12:26 |
(crowd laughing) | 12:31 | |
Like number one if he gonna speak to the grievances | 12:32 | |
don't be giving him other questions | 12:35 | |
to get him off the track. | 12:37 | |
Let him talk for each single thing and then let's try | 12:39 | |
to relate to it so we can move on. | 12:42 | |
(applause) | 12:45 | |
- | Thank you for that, Mr. Fuller. | 12:53 |
The Department of Afro-American Studies | 12:58 | |
is one that the faculty committee has recommended. | 13:01 | |
It's gonna take some time to put it together | 13:07 | |
and put it together properly as a part of this university | 13:10 | |
you can be proud of. | 13:14 | |
It's got to be approved by the whole faculty, | 13:16 | |
but these were respected members of the faculty | 13:22 | |
who studied it and recommended it to us. | 13:25 | |
Let me make one thing clear about it. | 13:29 | |
A great many of the courses that make the best sense | 13:31 | |
in that department are already being taught | 13:35 | |
in the university. | 13:39 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 13:41 | |
Yes they are and there will be others. | 13:42 | |
- | Let him talk. | 13:45 |
- | There will be others that I'm sure | 13:47 |
together we'll want to work out. | 13:49 | |
I'm certain of that. | 13:53 | |
Nobody says this is a finished and completed package at all, | 13:55 | |
the question is whether one honestly in good faith | 13:59 | |
has worked toward this department and the answer | 14:04 | |
is yes, it's been going on for some time. | 14:08 | |
(airplane engine droning) | 14:11 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 14:15 | |
(crowd laughing) | 14:21 | |
Is that an unfair statement? | 14:26 | |
- | It's an unfair statement and first of all, | 14:28 |
as he's indicated at the beginning of his talk, | 14:32 | |
there's been some question as to whether he himself | 14:35 | |
has the power to really start up the course here. | 14:38 | |
So there's some question in our mind whether we should | 14:42 | |
even be talking to him, like who runs this place? | 14:45 | |
Who makes these decisions? | 14:48 | |
First of all, if such a program is being developed, | 14:49 | |
one that we can all be proud of, one that's one of the best | 14:54 | |
in the country, how can it be one of the best | 14:58 | |
in the country, how can black people be proud of it | 15:00 | |
if black people from the beginning and in the process | 15:03 | |
have had no meaningful participation, | 15:07 | |
instead another program, who developed this program? | 15:10 | |
We had no part in developing this program. | 15:13 | |
- | Right on. | 15:16 |
(applause) | 15:17 | |
- | We don't plan to and we will not accept | 15:20 |
and Afro-American Studies Program | 15:24 | |
resulting out of shifting around of some courses | 15:26 | |
that the President taught here at this university. | 15:29 | |
We recognize that the people, | 15:32 | |
especially in these departments, | 15:34 | |
the people who run these departments are old people | 15:36 | |
who are not qualified to deal with | 15:39 | |
what we are talking about, they not qualified to relate | 15:41 | |
to black people, they're not qualified to relate | 15:43 | |
to a Black Studies Program. | 15:45 | |
We will not accept such a program | 15:49 | |
being forced down our throats. | 15:52 | |
You can name it a Black Studies Program, | 15:54 | |
but it's not a Black Studies Program. | 15:56 | |
It's something you've thrown together to appease people. | 15:58 | |
(applause) | 16:01 | |
- | Right on. | |
(crowd moaning) | 16:09 | |
- | No. | 16:10 |
- | Chuck, one thing if I may speak to that just a minute. | 16:12 |
The one thing I'd like to add to it | 16:16 | |
is that I don't think it's completely fair | 16:19 | |
just to chop it down as something created to appease people | 16:21 | |
cause I don't think that's quite the truth. | 16:25 | |
It does include things that have already been done, | 16:27 | |
it does include the work of people who know | 16:30 | |
a good deal about Africa, | 16:33 | |
though some of them happen to be white. | 16:34 | |
And nobody has said that it's a completed program. | 16:37 | |
We have said there are the pieces and parts | 16:42 | |
of the beginning of one what is what we're trying to get at. | 16:44 | |
- | What about black participation? | 16:47 |
That's a key issue. | 16:49 | |
Where were we, were we told about this committee? | 16:52 | |
We don't even know who's on this committee. | 16:53 | |
- | I think that you were told about it, Chuck. | 16:56 |
- | We were not told about this committee. | 16:59 |
- | Afterwards, right? | 17:01 |
(crowd murmuring) | 17:02 | |
- | I still would say that this is something | 17:07 |
the faculty of the university has been working on | 17:09 | |
and has its job to work on and has not been denied. | 17:12 | |
- | Why is it that the only committee that this school has | 17:16 |
that deals with Africa, the people who sit | 17:21 | |
on that committee, the grants and so forth they receive | 17:24 | |
to study Africa all come from the Republic of South Africa? | 17:26 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 17:31 | |
I'm speaking specifically to Edgar Thompson | 17:32 | |
and the Sociology Department and other props. | 17:34 | |
- | That, Chuck, just isn't so. | 17:38 |
(crowd murmuring) | 17:40 | |
- | Does any money come from South Africa? | 17:45 |
- | If money comes from South Africa, I don't know about it. | 17:48 |
- | South Africa, right now. | 17:53 |
- | I know South Africa is, yeah. | 17:54 |
- | Let's move to the next one. | 17:57 |
- | Let's look at this one. | 17:58 |
(crowd laughing) | 18:02 | |
- | I think we're trying to handle that one. | 18:04 |
Yes, Mr. Fuller? | 18:06 | |
- | I didn't hear you say, though, | 18:11 |
what were y'all gonna do in terms of, | 18:12 | |
are y'all ready to set up a structure | 18:16 | |
that is number one, gonna involve black students, | 18:19 | |
that is number two, gonna bring in where you don't have | 18:23 | |
the knowledge on Duke's campus, to bring in black people | 18:28 | |
who have set up black studies programs | 18:31 | |
such as from Federal Cities College, | 18:34 | |
such as Finish Campbell, such as James Turner, | 18:37 | |
to be involved in the structuring | 18:39 | |
of the Afro Studies Program? | 18:43 | |
- | Yes or no? | 18:44 |
- | Are y'all ready, are y'all prepared to give black students | 18:45 |
the voice and the control of various aspects | 18:49 | |
of the Afro Studies Program, | 18:52 | |
are y'all ready to do something like that? | 18:53 | |
- | Yes or no. | 18:56 |
(crowd laughing) | 18:57 | |
- | I'm not gonna answer that question | 19:02 |
for the faculty of this university. | 19:03 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 19:06 | |
- | Answer for yourself. | 19:09 |
- | I'd be happy to answer it for myself. | 19:11 |
- | Yes or no? | 19:14 |
- | Wait a minute. | 19:15 |
- | Hey, quiet. | 19:17 |
- | Wait a minute. | 19:18 |
You've suggested some of the ways in which | 19:22 | |
one might put together a good program. | 19:25 | |
Are those the only ways, I think not. | 19:27 | |
But they're some of the good ways. | 19:29 | |
If those and others are the proper ways | 19:32 | |
and the faculty of this university wants to use them, | 19:35 | |
the answer is yes, I'm not gonna commit it beforehand. | 19:37 | |
- | Here's what I'm saying, see we can't communicate | 19:42 |
cause what I'm saying, what the black students are saying | 19:45 | |
is that the crucial aspect of the whole thing | 19:48 | |
is their involvement, their ability to control it | 19:50 | |
and you won't relate to that question. | 19:53 | |
- | I'll relate to that question. | 19:56 |
Their involvement is absolutely crucial. | 19:58 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 20:01 | |
As it's put together. | 20:04 | |
As, I didn't say after. | 20:10 | |
But, now wait a minute. | 20:13 | |
- | I'm not talking to you then | 20:15 |
because you don't have power to deal with this. | 20:17 | |
We talking to Dr. Knight. | 20:19 | |
So your thing is talking about faculty members | 20:21 | |
and I'm talking about control | 20:23 | |
and how you gonna make the whole thing up | 20:25 | |
and you talking about leave it to faculty. | 20:27 | |
I'm talking about we gonna make up the whole | 20:29 | |
Afro Studies Program to start with, | 20:31 | |
that's what we talking about. | 20:34 | |
We saying that black students gotta be involved in it. | 20:36 | |
(applause) | 20:39 | |
- | Alright, alright. | 20:41 |
Alright, now. | 20:43 | |
Will you let me add to that involved | 20:46 | |
and not controlling all by themselves? | 20:51 | |
Not controlling, because other people | 20:55 | |
have to be involved too, the faculty who are gonna teach it, | 20:57 | |
the administrators have got to support it. | 21:01 | |
Is that a fair way to look at it? | 21:05 | |
- | Are you saying that we gonna go back | 21:09 |
and we gonna start all over for the whole thing | 21:11 | |
of Afro Studies Program and we gonna get black students | 21:14 | |
and other black community leaders involved in it | 21:18 | |
right from the jump and that sort of thing | 21:21 | |
is the thing to do, is that what you're saying? | 21:24 | |
- | Yes I am, but I'm not saying | 21:27 |
that any one group controls it. | 21:29 | |
- | I didn't ask that question yet, I asked the question- | 21:32 |
- | I answered that question, though. | 21:36 |
- | That's your answer, you are gonna do that? | 21:38 |
- | Now wait a minute, wait a minute. | 21:41 |
(crowd laughing) | 21:42 | |
I'm not trying to play games with you. | 21:48 | |
- | What about playing them, too? | 21:50 |
- | You're playing them with me, now don't do it, don't do it. | 21:52 |
(crowd booing) | 21:55 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 21:57 | |
- | Yeah, what is it? | 22:04 |
- | I think the problem is that two days ago | 22:06 |
almost everyone who was here, especially the black students | 22:08 | |
believed that the administration was in good faith | 22:11 | |
or didn't think about the question at all. | 22:14 | |
Now there are a lot of people in the university | 22:16 | |
doubt the good faith of the administration | 22:18 | |
and it's necessary for this to stop. | 22:21 | |
You see, there are two ways for this to stop. | 22:23 | |
- | I see. | 22:26 |
- | There's violence where it can get to a point | 22:27 |
where people simply go home | 22:28 | |
cause they don't want to get hurt anymore. | 22:29 | |
- | Right. | 22:30 |
- | But then you're gonna have more people | 22:31 |
who doubt your good faith the more violence you use. | 22:33 | |
You see, cause you already managed, in one day, | 22:35 | |
by making the police intervene for whatever reason you had, | 22:38 | |
granted you multiply by about hundred | 22:41 | |
the number of people who doubted your good faith | 22:44 | |
and our response is used again that that'll happen again. | 22:46 | |
Now the other alternative, some dramatic gesture | 22:49 | |
by the administration of this university | 22:52 | |
which will satisfy the black students, alright? | 22:56 | |
Something which they'll say to us, "These men are straight | 22:58 | |
"and we're working with them now under conditions | 23:02 | |
"we understand and accept." | 23:04 | |
Now if you can make a gesture like that, believe me, | 23:06 | |
this entire crisis will dissolve. | 23:08 | |
If you can't, it's gonna be very hard without making | 23:11 | |
a commitment like that get anywhere | 23:15 | |
and we're gonna end up back again with violence. | 23:16 | |
(applause) | 23:19 | |
- | And is the violence gonna solve | 23:27 |
the problem we want to solve? | 23:29 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 23:31 | |
Nobody wants to procrastinate it. | 23:37 | |
No one wants to procrastinate, it was slowed down | 23:40 | |
when that building was occupied and you know it. | 23:45 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 23:48 | |
- | That's when violence started, | 23:53 |
when they rolled out that girl. | 23:54 | |
- | No. | 23:57 |
- | And there are many people who don't know. | 23:59 |
- | A cop car. | 24:00 |
- | The people here who sort of sympathize | 24:02 |
with the blacks as opposed to the administration. | 24:04 | |
- | Sure. | 24:07 |
- | Can't sympathize with the administration | 24:08 |
as opposed to the blacks and some people | 24:09 | |
are really firmly committed to the blacks, | 24:11 | |
but most of us are sort of in the middle. | 24:13 | |
What I'm saying is that if you want to get us | 24:15 | |
together again, alright, you don't have the same kinds | 24:18 | |
of alternatives you had two days ago. | 24:21 | |
It's all changed now because the police intervened | 24:23 | |
and so many people doubt you. | 24:26 | |
You don't have the same kinds of alternatives | 24:27 | |
and the same kind of slow gradual development | 24:29 | |
under the normal standard procedures and channels | 24:32 | |
of a Black Studies Program and all these other things. | 24:35 | |
This isn't gonna solve our problem, either, | 24:38 | |
no more than will violence but I think that's why | 24:40 | |
a few of you make now a dramatic gesture | 24:42 | |
which commits you to the full extent of your power | 24:45 | |
to satisfy the demands of the black students. | 24:48 | |
(applause) | 24:51 | |
- | And you're aware as you say that, | 24:59 |
of the things that limit my power, okay? | 25:01 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 25:05 | |
- | What are they? | 25:06 |
- | Now don't talk to me as though I weren't speaking | 25:11 |
to you like a man, there's no need for insults. | 25:13 | |
I didn't insult you. | 25:17 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 25:20 | |
I took my responsibility for what many of you | 25:25 | |
resent so much and I didn't try to conceal that. | 25:29 | |
- | Do you pledge not to do it again, sir? | 25:36 |
(crowd laughing) | 25:38 | |
- | I happen to have been working as hard as I could work | 25:40 |
for some of the good things in this region, | 25:44 | |
not the violent things. | 25:47 | |
- | Name one. | 25:48 |
- | And there are some of you, including Mr. Fuller, | 25:51 |
who know that and also if you want to measure it, | 25:53 | |
I suggest that you measure it by the amount of hate | 25:58 | |
that people on the far right in our political community | 26:01 | |
have for me, you talk about. | 26:04 | |
(crowd laughing) | 26:07 | |
Yes, some of them. | 26:09 | |
(applause) | ||
Perhaps some, you know who many of the others are | 26:13 | |
and you know perfectly well the unpopular positions | 26:18 | |
I've taken in the support of this. | 26:21 | |
- | Get back to. | 26:24 |
- | Alright, alright. | |
But you want to talk about good faith. | 26:26 | |
I've been putting myself on the line in this one | 26:29 | |
long before you decided it was a two day issue | 26:31 | |
or an eight hour issue or anything else. | 26:34 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 26:37 | |
And I want a little recognition for that. | 26:39 | |
- | Give him a hand. | 26:42 |
- | Forget the damn hand. | 26:43 |
That's not my point, my point is I really have been | 26:47 | |
concerned about these things and taken my risk for them. | 26:50 | |
And I know you've taken your risk for them. | 26:56 | |
- | You'll get your reward for your risk. | 26:58 |
(crowd murmuring) | 27:00 | |
- | Nothing I ask for, friends. | 27:02 |
- | Back to the demands. | 27:05 |
- | Nothing I ask for. | 27:06 |
- | Back to the demands. | |
- | Now how about taking a look | 27:12 |
at this matter of a black dormitory. | 27:16 | |
Will you let me phrase it or put it the way | 27:22 | |
you yourselves put it, which was the living/learning | 27:25 | |
community you said you wanted, with a chance | 27:28 | |
of black students primarily to choose those | 27:32 | |
who would live there cause it was gonna be | 27:34 | |
an Afro-American Studies, that's the way it was presented | 27:36 | |
and that's the way it can legally be presented | 27:40 | |
and considered; if you call it a black dormitory on campus | 27:42 | |
it's just as segregated as calling | 27:48 | |
some other things all white. | 27:52 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 27:54 | |
- | Sigma Kai. | 27:56 |
- | Alright, and they've had to give it up | 27:58 |
and we're not gonna reestablish it. | 28:00 | |
- | Oh they had to give it up? | 28:02 |
- | Yes they did and the heat had to be put on them | 28:03 |
and it was and that happened. | 28:08 | |
- | Where are the black students | 28:11 |
in those dormitories, Dr. Knight? | 28:12 | |
- | Well now you want to guarantee white ones | 28:13 |
in the Afro-American dormitory? | 28:15 | |
- | If you can guarantee black ones in the white dormitories | 28:17 |
then perhaps you can talk to the Afros | 28:20 | |
about guaranteeing white students in their dormitories. | 28:21 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 28:23 | |
- | I'm just trying to get at the point raised here | 28:27 |
in question two, that this is a feasible thing to do | 28:30 | |
as long as it's part of the program of the university, | 28:33 | |
not if you say it's a separate black dormitory. | 28:37 | |
- | Don't you have the power to make it? | 28:41 |
- | No, I don't have the power to make it | 28:43 |
a separate black dormitory. | 28:45 | |
- | A fraternity in a black dormitory, | 28:46 |
isn't that the same thing? | 28:48 | |
Isn't it a black fraternity more or less? | 28:49 | |
- | You can't have an all-white fraternity legally. | 28:53 |
(crowd murmuring) | 28:56 | |
Wait a minute, let me just get the facts straight | 29:01 | |
for you on that one. | 29:04 | |
Outfits on this campus that wouldn't remove those clauses | 29:06 | |
had to remove themselves and some of the sororities did. | 29:09 | |
Two years ago. | 29:13 | |
Alright, alright. | 29:16 | |
If you're asking me why I can't change all of human nature | 29:18 | |
I'm sorry, I don't have an answer to that one. | 29:21 | |
Yes, I'm trying to help. | 29:25 | |
I'm sorry, I happen to believe many of the same things | 29:28 | |
you do, I know you doubt it, but it happens to be so. | 29:31 | |
None of us, yes please, but I want to go on | 29:39 | |
to this question two unless you want to go on to three. | 29:41 | |
- | I don't understand something about this. | 29:44 |
It seems to me if you want to incorporate the blacks | 29:46 | |
into the system then the black dorm would incorporate them | 29:47 | |
very nicely by having segregated things. | 29:50 | |
- | Sure, I think that'd be the cheap answer. | 29:53 |
Now look, if what you really want, as I believe you do, | 29:57 | |
as I hope we can talk about and not just in this setting | 30:01 | |
where the voice goes eventually. | 30:06 | |
If what you really want is a chance to establish identity, | 30:10 | |
your own self, your own way of life as other people want it, | 30:18 | |
if that's what you want then that's the thing | 30:23 | |
we can really take seriously and go with. | 30:26 | |
Now you said you want me to speak as a person. | 30:29 | |
I'm speaking as a person, maybe nobody else | 30:31 | |
will back me up on that. | 30:33 | |
I'm telling you one man's view of what this kind | 30:35 | |
of dormitory could mean. | 30:38 | |
If that's what it means then it makes sense. | 30:40 | |
If it just means a black dormitory where blackness | 30:44 | |
is blackness then I don't read that any more | 30:46 | |
than I read just whiteness is whiteness. | 30:50 | |
- | Another contradiction. | 30:52 |
- | Will you tolerate it? | 30:54 |
(crowd murmuring) | 30:55 | |
- | It's our right as black students on this campus | 30:58 |
to establish a dormitory that we can choose | 30:59 | |
the people we want to live with and live there together, | 31:02 | |
that's what we talking about. | 31:04 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 31:06 | |
- | Dr. Knight? | 31:08 |
- | Yes, i support very strongly the idea | 31:09 |
that you choose those who live near you as students | 31:12 | |
as many of you do right now I take it. | 31:17 | |
The one thing that I'm trying to say to you | 31:20 | |
is that I can't support the idea of a dormitory | 31:22 | |
whose definition is that this is black | 31:26 | |
just because it's black. | 31:30 | |
- | I don't support the Ku Klux Klan | 31:32 |
but they got the right to fund their organization. | 31:34 | |
(crowd laughing) | 31:36 | |
- | I don't think they've got the legal right to do it. | 31:38 |
- | They're doing it. | 31:40 |
- | They're doing it. | |
- | That's another matter. | 31:42 |
They're doing it and I hope got back for it. | 31:45 | |
Why don't we do the thing that we can truly | 31:51 | |
and honestly do which is work on this identity manner? | 31:55 | |
- | We don't mention attention. | 31:58 |
- | I know you don't. | 32:00 |
(crowd murmuring) | 32:01 | |
- | Written down on a piece of paper in your language. | 32:03 |
- | Okay, and I'm trying to answer you | 32:06 |
as honestly as I can. | 32:08 | |
- | Dr. Knight? | 32:09 |
- | Sir? | 32:11 |
- | What are you gonna do about legality in Durham? | 32:12 |
Where were you when the pigs (crowd murmuring) | 32:14 | |
tried to get all the black people in the school thrown out | 32:18 | |
and picketed the protest hearing, | 32:21 | |
what is your opinion on that? | 32:23 | |
- | He's only following orders. | 32:24 |
(crowd laughing) | 32:26 | |
- | Nobody is trying to get anybody thrown out. | 32:28 |
(crowd murmuring) | 32:32 | |
Wait a minute, let's clear something up about that. | 32:33 | |
Nobody who was in that building | 32:39 | |
has been thrown out of this university. | 32:42 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 32:45 | |
No. | ||
Now wait a minute, hold it. | 32:48 | |
Just hold it a bit, hold it a bit. | 32:50 | |
The second go around there, the document that you were given | 32:54 | |
let's just get down to the facts of it | 32:58 | |
said that you were suspended pending those hearings, | 33:01 | |
isn't that right? | 33:04 | |
Alright, alright exactly. | 33:06 | |
Meanwhile it very clearly would be unfair | 33:10 | |
for any student who was there to have to leave this campus | 33:14 | |
later on to be found innocent after due process | 33:19 | |
and he'd have lost that time and all the rest of it. | 33:25 | |
- | Do you pledge amnesty to these students? | 33:28 |
- | That's another question, we answered that one. | 33:30 |
I'm trying to tell you that no student who was in there | 33:33 | |
and has been suspended ha been asked to leave classes. | 33:38 | |
We want you to go right on with those classes. | 33:40 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 33:44 | |
Amnesty means that we never carry though | 33:45 | |
on the due process. | 33:50 | |
We've got to carry through on it. | 33:52 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 33:54 | |
- | What about the first charges according to your own policy | 33:57 |
and according to the procedures identified | 33:58 | |
by your own committee if you or your representative | 33:59 | |
doesn't prefer charges, nobody can, so you have the power | 34:02 | |
right now to say you're not gonna do it | 34:05 | |
and you're not gonna authorize it. | 34:07 | |
- | Right on. | 34:08 |
(applause) | 34:09 | |
- | Let me ask you a question about it. | 34:13 |
Would you at that point say that I had the same authority | 34:15 | |
when every one of who's ideas you detested | 34:20 | |
asked for that same right? | 34:25 | |
Would you like me to use my authority that way, would you? | 34:28 | |
- | The point is will you defend the ideas | 34:32 |
of the black students? | 34:34 | |
- | No. | 34:35 |
- | If the question is relevant. | |
If you don't. | 34:37 | |
- | Now wait a minute, wait a minute. | 34:38 |
Let's not confuse two things here. | 34:39 | |
- | You're trying to confuse things. | 34:41 |
- | No I'm sorry, but I'm not confused on this one. | 34:42 |
We're all confused about some things right now | 34:45 | |
but I'm not confused on this one. | 34:48 | |
- | Back to the demands. | 34:49 |
- | You've got to make a distinction | 34:50 |
between acting irrationally because you believe | 34:53 | |
so much in the cause and trying to have some reason | 34:56 | |
and some justice for causes that you may believe in | 35:00 | |
or may not believe in, you've gotta have some common | 35:05 | |
basic justice, that's all. | 35:07 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 35:09 | |
And you can't have violence, you cannot have violence | 35:10 | |
as the base of justice. | 35:13 | |
- | You brought the cops in there. | 35:14 |
(crowd murmuring) | 35:16 | |
- | The one thing I want to say. | 35:17 |
- | It's cold out here, so look. | 35:18 |
- | It is cold. | 35:21 |
- | Alright well look, alright now | 35:22 |
you claim that you don't have the power by yourself. | 35:24 | |
- | I do not. | 35:26 |
- | Alright, would you be willing to get whoever you need | 35:27 |
to make any kind of decision and meet with us tonight | 35:31 | |
and we sit down and we gonna write down | 35:34 | |
what you intend to do about these demands. | 35:37 | |
- | Right on. | 35:39 |
- | And then we'll bring it back to you? | 35:40 |
(applause) | 35:41 | |
- | I'll be very willing | 35:48 |
to sit down with a group of you | 35:51 | |
that's a reasonable size group of you. | 35:52 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 35:54 | |
No, we're gonna sit down and talk. | 35:56 | |
We're gonna sit down and talk. | 36:01 | |
- | I think he's asking about plot is all. | 36:03 |
- | Right. | 36:05 |
- | Why don't you address and answer the man's question? | 36:06 |
(crowd murmuring) | 36:08 | |
- | We all of us have our bosses, don't we? | 36:10 |
All these people you think you need | 36:12 | |
to help you make a decision, that's who we want there. | 36:15 | |
- | I understand. | 36:17 |
I understand exactly. | 36:19 | |
And yes, I was trying to say that. | 36:22 | |
- | Okay, you gonna do that? | 36:25 |
- | With a reasonable group of you. | 36:26 |
- | A reasonable number. | 36:29 |
- | What you call a reasonable number? | 36:30 |
- | Now wait a minute. | 36:32 |
Wait a minute, let me ask this gentleman. | 36:33 | |
- | A reasonable number. | 36:35 |
- | Of students. | 36:37 |
- | Yeah, right. | 36:38 |
Okay plus if you can't make the decision | 36:43 | |
you gonna have somebody with you who can, right? | 36:46 | |
- | That's okay, no one of us can do all these things. | 36:49 |
- | I'm not trying to get in any words in, | 36:53 |
I'm trying to talk facts. | 36:54 | |
- | I know, I know. | 36:55 |
- | Alright it's gonna be you and maybe a couple more | 36:56 |
people with you, right? | 36:59 | |
- | Yes. | 37:01 |
(crowd murmuring) | 37:02 | |
Wait a minute. | 37:05 | |
- | People that you know can make a decision, right? | 37:06 |
That needs to be made. | 37:08 | |
- | That can at least have some input into them, yes. | 37:10 |
- | Okay. | 37:12 |
- | Okay and that means faculty members. | 37:13 |
(crowd murmuring) | 37:15 | |
- | Wait a minute, wait a minute. | 37:16 |
You know perfectly well if you're gonna have order | 37:17 | |
in a university that means senior faculty | 37:19 | |
and it means trustees as well as members | 37:23 | |
of the administration and you all know that. | 37:25 | |
- | Okay. | 37:28 |
- | Alright, alright, and you've got to give us | 37:29 |
a reasonable chance to go at that one. | 37:31 | |
And it was that reasonable chance by the way | 37:34 | |
that was denied when you moved in on Allen Building. | 37:37 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 37:39 | |
- | We spent all of last semester | 37:41 |
talking to those people, man. | 37:42 | |
- | Two days, this list turned up | 37:43 |
two days before you moved in. | 37:45 | |
- | What time, what time is the meeting gonna be? | 37:47 |
- | Amen. | 37:52 |
(crowd laughing) | 37:54 | |
- | Amen and by the way, you have yourselves | 37:57 |
and I've got me, okay? | 37:59 | |
Let's hope. | 38:01 | |
- | Are you willing to give sanctuary | 38:04 |
in the environment of this deliberative place | 38:06 | |
for those that will wait in watchful anticipation | 38:09 | |
for your answer? | 38:12 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 38:13 | |
- | Like looking down at me like that's gonna be | 38:15 |
wait and see what gonna go down. | 38:17 | |
- | No, it's not a question of that. | 38:19 |
If we're gonna put it under pressure, | 38:25 | |
then we're not gonna do it. | 38:27 | |
If we can sit down and talk, then we can. | 38:29 | |
I'm just telling you, I'm trying to answer your question. | 38:33 | |
You put it in some fancy language yourself that time, | 38:36 | |
speaking of gray mush. | 38:40 | |
We won't do it under pressure. | 38:41 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 38:43 | |
- | Dr. Knight, Dr. Knight. | 38:44 |
- | We won't do it under pressure, let's try it at eight, huh? | 38:46 |
(crowd murmuring) | 38:49 | |
- | Where? | 38:51 |
- | Where the meeting gonna be? | 38:55 |
Where the meeting gonna be, where we gonna have it? | 38:57 | |
- | I can't tell you because I don't know. | 38:59 |
(crowd murmuring) | 39:01 | |
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. | 39:02 | |
Wait a minute, look, look. | 39:06 | |
Look, you've got to give me a chance to talk | 39:08 | |
with some other folks, haven't you? | 39:10 | |
I'm trying to be serious with you. | 39:14 | |
- | I have no problem with what you're saying. | 39:15 |
- | Alright. | 39:16 |
- | All I'm saying is like you have said. | 39:17 |
- | And I'm not having one with you either. | 39:19 |
- | That there's gonna be a meeting. | 39:20 |
- | Right. | 39:21 |
- | It is gonna be at 8:00. | 39:22 |
- | Right. | 39:23 |
- | You got to talk to your folks | 39:24 |
and where they'd be willing to come to. | 39:25 | |
- | And you've got to do the same thing. | 39:27 |
- | We coming, you know we renting. | 39:29 |
(crowd murmuring and laughing) | 39:31 | |
(applause) | 39:32 | |
- | Yes indeed, on the campus. | 39:35 |
- | And without this kind of pressured surroundings. | 39:38 |
- | We not talking about pressure, | 39:41 |
all we talking about is a meeting. | 39:43 | |
- | Alright, that's what I'm talking about. | 39:44 |
- | Aright so we're together on that, right? | 39:46 |
- | Right. | 39:48 |
- | So you cold and I'm cold and since that's gonna be, | 39:49 |
then we can split right now, right? | 39:51 | |
I mean we can leave. | 39:54 | |
(crowd laughing) | 39:55 | |
- | I read you, I read you, I read you. | 39:56 |
Okay. | 40:00 | |
(crowd murmuring and laughing) | 40:02 | |
Do you read him? | 40:05 | |
- | Where's it gonna be? | 40:06 |
- | Absolutely, I want to know which one of you gentleman | 40:07 |
is going to talk with me about this? | 40:11 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 40:13 | |
No, wait a minute, wait a minute. | 40:15 | |
- | All we need is a designated place. | 40:17 |
- | Yes, to work out the place where we can meet. | 40:21 |
- | Alright alright, now let me go. | 40:24 |
- | That's all, that's all. | 40:26 |
That's not an unfair request. | 40:29 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 40:31 | |
We take it from there. | 40:34 | |
- | We'll meet anywhere on campus you want to meet. | 40:36 |
All you gotta do, you can call 5795 on campus | 40:38 | |
and I'll be up there in the office waiting | 40:42 | |
and you can let me know then and we'll come | 40:45 | |
wherever on campus you want to meet. | 40:48 | |
- | We'll sit down together. | 40:51 |
- | Like the rest of y'all, there aint gonna be no pressure | 40:52 |
thing cause all of us in this thing, | 40:54 | |
all y'all like each other, it's all the Duke family, | 40:56 | |
so all the Duke family is gonna have a family gathering | 40:59 | |
to just talk to each other waiting to see what happens. | 41:03 | |
Aint no pressure, right? | 41:06 | |
Crowd | Right. | 41:08 |
- | Can we get a tape recorder there? | 41:09 |
- | Agreed, alright. | 41:10 |
- | Let's go. | 41:11 |
- | Just in case he forgets, there it is written there. | 41:13 |
(crowd laughing) | 41:16 | |
- | And I might well forget. | 41:18 |
Thank you for coming, he wants to come through. | 41:22 | |
- | Thank you, Dr. Knight. | 41:24 |
- | Y'all wait to hear like where the start getting together | 41:25 |
so you can find out what went down after the meeting. | 41:28 | |
- | Record the meeting. | 41:32 |
- | I'll do it, we'll talk out our reasonable number | 41:33 |
which I would say is about five of us each way. | 41:36 | |
(crowd murmuring) | 41:40 | |
Walk out now? | 41:42 | |
- | Will you announce it over the radio? | 41:49 |
Are you still gonna make the speech? | 41:51 | |
- | No, no I think not. | 41:53 |
I don't see how any one human being can produce all of it. | 41:56 | |
- | Dr. Knight, we're behind you as long as necessary. | 42:01 |
- | In all good faith. | 42:04 |
Believe me, I am. | 42:05 | |
- | We're behind you too, sir. | 42:07 |
- | Okay. | 42:08 |
Thank you very much. | 42:11 |
Item Info
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