Asam, Zakirjan - Interview master file
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Man | Okay, good afternoon. | 0:07 |
- | Good afternoon | 0:09 |
Man | We are very grateful to you | 0:09 |
for participating in the Witness to Guantanamo Project. | 0:11 | |
We invite you to speak | 0:16 | |
of your experiences at Guantanamo and Bay Cuba. | 0:17 | |
And we're hoping to gather your stories and the testimonies | 0:22 | |
of those of other men who have been brought to Guantanamo. | 0:26 | |
We are creating an archive of the stories | 0:31 | |
so that people in America and in the world | 0:34 | |
will have a better understanding | 0:37 | |
of what you and others have endured. | 0:39 | |
Future generations must know what happened | 0:42 | |
and by telling your story you're contributing to history. | 0:46 | |
We appreciate and thank you | 0:50 | |
for your courage and willingness to speak to us. | 0:52 | |
If at any time you would like to take a break | 0:57 | |
please tell us and we will stop. | 1:01 | |
If at any time you say something | 1:04 | |
that you would like to remove, | 1:06 | |
just tell us and we will remove it. | 1:08 | |
- | Okay. | 1:10 |
Man | If there's any question you don't wanna answer | 1:10 |
please tell us, | 1:12 | |
anything you would like, we will always participate | 1:13 | |
and always do that. | 1:16 | |
- | Okay. | 1:18 |
Man | Okay, and I'd like to begin | 1:18 |
with some basic information including your name, | 1:20 | |
and if you can tell me your nationality, | 1:24 | |
and if you have any family, if you don't have to tell me, | 1:31 | |
but if you want to and if you wanna tell me your language | 1:37 | |
what your languages and your religion | 1:44 | |
whatever you'd like to tell me, | 1:46 | |
but we'd like a little information about you. | 1:47 | |
- | Yeah okay, my name is Zakir Jan, | 1:50 |
and the last name is Asam, | 1:52 | |
and my nationality is Uzbek. | 1:54 | |
And I have a daughter and I have family. | 1:59 | |
Actually I had, | 2:04 | |
and what else... | 2:06 | |
and I am Muslim, | 2:09 | |
what else, 38 years old, | 2:14 | |
Man | 38. | 2:18 |
- | 38. | 2:19 |
Man | And can you tell us | 2:20 |
when you first arrived in Guantanamo and when you left? | 2:23 | |
- | I arrived from Guantanamo on 16th of June, 2002. | 2:26 |
that was the first made step | 2:32 | |
on the ground on Guantanamo. | 2:34 | |
Man | Okay, and you were released in when? | 2:35 |
- | In 2006, 17th of November. | 2:38 |
Man | Okay, and I'm just curious how | 2:44 |
before we go into some background, | 2:48 | |
why were you sent to Albania? | 2:51 | |
Do you know anything about why they sent you to Albania? | 2:52 | |
- | Just have a general idea because US government | 2:57 |
can keep monitoring on us, by keeping in Albania, | 3:02 | |
because Albania follows all the instruction from US. | 3:08 | |
I think that's the point we were sent here. | 3:12 | |
Man | And you knew there were wiggles here when you came? | 3:15 |
- | Yeah, I knew. | 3:18 |
Man | We would like to begin by asking you | 3:21 |
to tell us your story | 3:23 | |
on how you were arrested and where you were taken | 3:25 | |
and what happened to you before you came to Guantanamo? | 3:29 | |
Could you tell us some of that? | 3:33 | |
- | Yeah, I was living in Afghanistan. | 3:34 |
And when U.S. Air Force starts bombarding Kunduz, | 3:39 | |
and some people on some cars came, | 3:44 | |
and tell us to leave a village | 3:48 | |
because that village will be bombarded | 3:51 | |
and we escape a mountain, | 3:53 | |
and we spent there night and day. | 3:57 | |
And next time, next day, some commanders | 4:02 | |
and legal commanders were searching the mountain, | 4:09 | |
and they were taking people from mountain | 4:13 | |
to clarify who they are. | 4:16 | |
And they picked me from the place | 4:18 | |
and brought me to one village, | 4:21 | |
like a castle, but it wasn't a real castle. | 4:25 | |
And, I was kept there, | 4:28 | |
and they informed me if I need to go, if I need my freedom | 4:33 | |
I should pay them 3,000 US dollars, | 4:38 | |
because I am their prey. | 4:42 | |
So I couldn't pay. | 4:47 | |
And they told me that they're going to sell me | 4:49 | |
to US force because they are looking for people, | 4:51 | |
for foreigns, for Afghanistan and they are purchasing them. | 4:55 | |
Man | And do you, who were these people | 5:03 |
who said they would sell you if you didn't pay? | 5:04 | |
- | They were armed commanders but illegal commanders | 5:07 |
Man | Afghani? | 5:11 |
- | Afghan people yes, they were Afghan, | 5:12 |
but they were opposites of Taliban, yeah. | 5:15 | |
Man | And then how soon after were you sold? | 5:21 |
- | In the, I think in the beginning 2000, in the May, | 5:25 |
in the beginning of May, 2002, | 5:32 | |
I was sold to US force. | 5:34 | |
Man | And between the time | 5:37 |
you were grabbed. | 5:38 | |
- | I was. | |
Man | And the time you were sold, | 5:40 |
you were in the castle. | 5:41 | |
- | Yes I was in the castle. | 5:43 |
Man | Were you mistreated while you were there? | 5:44 |
- | Yeah, that was very bad treatment to us. | 5:46 |
I couldn't live underground, | 5:49 | |
because they kept us in underground, | 5:51 | |
and we left twice for our personnel needs. | 5:55 | |
Man | And who were you with? | 6:01 |
- | They were one Arab and other, | 6:04 |
were Pakistan from Pakistan, they were. | 6:07 | |
Man | Were they all sold to America too? | 6:11 |
- | Yep, all of them, all of us. | 6:14 |
Man | And when Americans took over, | 6:16 |
what did they do with you? | 6:19 | |
- | They picked me from Kunduz to Mazar-e Sharif | 6:22 |
and, I spent the three days then they sent me, | 6:25 | |
but I saw very bad a treatment there. | 6:30 | |
And I was kept in one castle. | 6:34 | |
And I spent there three days. | 6:37 | |
Then they picked me to airplane | 6:39 | |
and, i was sent sent to Bagram. | 6:42 | |
Man | Could you describe the treatment | 6:47 |
that they did to you before you were sent to Bagram? | 6:48 | |
- | We worked 24 hours during of the day and chuckles, | 6:52 |
even our legs were in chuckles, so we couldn't move fast | 6:58 | |
because that chuckles on our legs doesn't let us move fast. | 7:07 | |
Man | Were you dressed? | 7:12 |
- | Yeah I were dressed yes. | 7:14 |
Man | Did you wear a mask or? | 7:15 |
- | During, after transport yes. | 7:19 |
Man | And what happened at Bagram? | 7:22 |
- | And they picked me to Bagram, | 7:24 |
and I was treated as very badly, | 7:26 | |
because, they put a black bag on my head, | 7:28 | |
and they just close my eyes | 7:33 | |
with tape, even when I couldn't see anything | 7:39 | |
and they cut off my clothes, | 7:44 | |
they were four soldiers were holding me, | 7:47 | |
and one of them with a scissors cut off my clothes, | 7:51 | |
and when I, when they opened my eye, | 7:56 | |
when my eyes, I saw a front of me | 8:00 | |
only a woman soldiers, only woman soldiers | 8:03 | |
they were laughing at me. | 8:06 | |
That's that was very bad. | 8:08 | |
So according my religion to stand front of a woman, | 8:10 | |
absolutely naked, | 8:13 | |
that was insulting my religion, | 8:15 | |
offending my religion, but I couldn't say any word, | 8:19 | |
because two of those soldiers were standing | 8:22 | |
in front of me to be ready to beat me. | 8:25 | |
Even I couldn't move my with my eyes. | 8:28 | |
That was very bad. | 8:31 | |
And I didn't understand the time, | 8:33 | |
because I hoped justice from US, | 8:36 | |
because USA to just, the country of justice. | 8:40 | |
And that time, I didn't understand that my idea | 8:46 | |
about US was wrong. | 8:51 | |
Man | Did you know why they were holding you? | 8:53 |
- | They want to change my clothes, | 8:56 |
and they didn't let me do and to behind some something, | 8:58 | |
but they were afraid of me because, yes. | 9:04 | |
Man | I'm sorry, | 9:08 |
- | Because they had information on people | 9:09 |
all foreign people in Afghanistan are terrorist. | 9:13 | |
And I think there is some security rules | 9:17 | |
to treat for people like that. | 9:20 | |
Man | Did they tell you they thought you were a terrorist? | 9:23 |
- | No, they didn't say anything | 9:25 |
because they hadn't interpreter. | 9:28 | |
By the time i didn't understand Farsi. | 9:32 | |
They say something Farsi and English, | 9:35 | |
but I didn't understand both. | 9:37 | |
Man | And what do you think would happen to you? | 9:40 |
- | And then I was taken to another room | 9:43 |
on the absolutely isolated and that I spent there, | 9:46 | |
my hand was behind me, was closing, | 9:55 | |
my hand was in chuckles again, | 10:00 | |
and then my head was covered by a bag, | 10:02 | |
and I spent the night | 10:07 | |
Man | And then? | 10:11 |
- | And then they, in the end of that night, | 10:12 |
they brought me a food, plastic food, | 10:16 | |
and during of that food of meal, | 10:21 | |
they pick my bag from my head, | 10:28 | |
they let me eat something. | 10:31 | |
And then there was my head again with black bag. | 10:34 | |
And, I think one of interrogator came to interrogate me | 10:41 | |
and he starts to yell in Farsi something, | 10:48 | |
I couldn't understand any words of him. | 10:51 | |
And I said I don't understand anything. | 10:55 | |
And I spent another day there. | 10:58 | |
I think in the end of that day, | 11:01 | |
in the beginning of the evening, | 11:05 | |
I was sent to a regular room. | 11:07 | |
They were about 10 people. | 11:11 | |
And, I went there. | 11:16 | |
Man | Did you have a better understanding? | 11:21 |
Did the other people tell you what was going on? | 11:22 | |
Did you know about 9/11, | 11:24 | |
you must have known about 9/11 then, right? | 11:26 | |
- | Yes, I heard about it. | 11:29 |
Man | And did the other people tell you | 11:30 |
why they were there or what was going on? | 11:31 | |
- | No, because that was prohibited to speak each other. | 11:34 |
Man | And how long were you in Bagram | 11:38 |
before they sent you to Guantanamo? | 11:39 | |
- | I spent there for 14 days. | 11:43 |
But after third day, | 11:46 | |
no, after a third investigation, interrogation, | 11:50 | |
they tortured me, they beat me, | 11:54 | |
and I had the operation after that. | 11:57 | |
I was into hospital, military hospital | 12:01 | |
and I had the operation there, | 12:04 | |
but they didn't change a treatment. | 12:07 | |
Man | Could you describe what they did when (mumbles) | 12:10 |
- | Okay, in the end of third interrogation, | 12:11 |
one of that interrogator came into the room | 12:18 | |
and they start to yell at me by translating | 12:21 | |
but there was a big translator. | 12:25 | |
I couldn't say that was translator. | 12:27 | |
He couldn't understand some Uzbek words. | 12:29 | |
Even he couldn't separate kidney with liver. | 12:33 | |
He said, "you have problems on your liver, | 12:40 | |
"you should have the operation." | 12:43 | |
Even he was so fool, | 12:45 | |
he couldn't say kidney. | 12:47 | |
I said, okay. | 12:51 | |
And that day, in the end of that interrogation, | 12:52 | |
interrogator entered | 13:00 | |
into the room and they start to yell that I have given | 13:01 | |
during of three interrogation, three different information. | 13:06 | |
I said, if you're so brief, if you're so smart, prove it. | 13:09 | |
I was saying, he was taking notes, | 13:14 | |
show me there's differences. | 13:16 | |
He couldn't show, that was the trick of their investigation. | 13:18 | |
And I said, okay, prove it. | 13:22 | |
I'll take everything, you're wrong. | 13:23 | |
And he said, we'll see, that's the beginning | 13:26 | |
of your black days, dark days, | 13:28 | |
you know what they mean dark days? | 13:31 | |
And I said, okay, | 13:34 | |
they still put the bag on my head. | 13:36 | |
And I didn't know where they were taking me. | 13:41 | |
When I stepped into the door | 13:45 | |
step into the room, I felt something very heavy thing | 13:47 | |
in my stomach. | 13:52 | |
That's gave me very hard | 13:54 | |
and my breath, and what you remember then | 13:56 | |
I think three or some more movement. | 14:01 | |
I was going into my body | 14:07 | |
and I lost the concentration, | 14:08 | |
that was all, why I should remember. | 14:11 | |
And when I open my eye, I was in separated room | 14:14 | |
and two soldiers enter into the room. | 14:21 | |
They start pushing me still, | 14:25 | |
pressing me to do what they say. | 14:27 | |
And my body was shaking of pain. | 14:31 | |
I said, I cannot do. | 14:36 | |
And they get until the end. | 14:38 | |
I lost everything, I couldn't control myself. | 14:41 | |
And then when I come back, when I opened my eyes | 14:45 | |
I was in separated room, but in small room. | 14:48 | |
And they came because they take my blood | 14:52 | |
for analyze, to analyze. | 14:54 | |
And they said, that I have to give it for test urine. | 14:56 | |
I said, why? | 15:03 | |
Through translator. | 15:05 | |
And then I said why? | 15:07 | |
Because we have to check something happen with you. | 15:08 | |
I said, okay, if you want to check, if not, you may die. | 15:11 | |
We may take you by force. | 15:14 | |
We may do everything to you by force. | 15:15 | |
I said, I refuse to give anything. | 15:18 | |
If I die here | 15:20 | |
you only say that I will be responsible for my death. | 15:21 | |
I need that, because you're doing everything over the rule, | 15:25 | |
over the law. | 15:30 | |
And they said, okay, we will force. | 15:33 | |
I said, try. | 15:34 | |
And then came on military doctor. | 15:37 | |
And he has taken some blood | 15:42 | |
by force, of course, I refuse to give anything. | 15:47 | |
And they said, I should be assigned to hospital. | 15:51 | |
If I refuse | 15:54 | |
they will be taking me by force. | 15:56 | |
I said, I refuse. | 15:58 | |
And I was taken to the hospital, | 15:59 | |
and they operate me there. | 16:02 | |
And they said, I lied because I didn't have any appendix. | 16:04 | |
And they said, I lied. | 16:10 | |
Then I said, I didn't say anything. | 16:11 | |
I didn't say I have appendix. | 16:13 | |
I said, just I had the pen. | 16:15 | |
And even Russia knows a first day of my... | 16:17 | |
Day in Guantanamo, I had a real bad swelling | 16:25 | |
and that swelling didn't go after operation. | 16:31 | |
They said, we cannot do anything. | 16:35 | |
But you lied to us. | 16:38 | |
I said, no, I didn't say anything. | 16:40 | |
I had the problems too. | 16:41 | |
And after four days | 16:44 | |
they sent me back to Bagram, to prisom, | 16:45 | |
I may say to camp. | 16:50 | |
They kept me four more days, four or five more days. | 16:52 | |
And they didn't pay attention | 16:56 | |
of my problems, of my health problems. | 16:58 | |
And they pick me to Kandahar. | 17:01 | |
I spend in Bagram 14 days. | 17:04 | |
Man | And the way you were treated in Bagram, | 17:08 |
do you, once you went back to the cell four days later, | 17:11 | |
then they didn't torture you or mistreat you anymore | 17:14 | |
until you were sent to Kandahar? | 17:18 | |
- | No, they didn't say anything, but I was in separated room, | 17:20 |
isolated room. | 17:25 | |
Man | Isolated? | 17:26 |
- | Yes, isolated, and I spent there two days, | 17:27 |
then I was taken to a regular room. | 17:29 | |
They will four or five people. | 17:32 | |
And I spend there two more days, | 17:34 | |
three more days, two, three more days. | 17:37 | |
And we were sent to come to Kandahar. | 17:40 | |
Man | And how did you endure that? | 17:43 |
What were you thinking? | 17:47 | |
How would you survive? | 17:48 | |
Did think about how you might survive all this? | 17:49 | |
Did you do anything to help you survive? | 17:51 | |
- | No, nothing, absolutely nothing. | 17:54 |
Man | What were you thinking? | 17:58 |
Were you thinking of your family or thinking of any? | 17:59 | |
- | No, nothing. | 18:02 |
Just, I need to get end of those tortures. | 18:03 | |
Man | That's all you were thinking. | 18:07 |
- | Yes (mumbles) | 18:08 |
Man | Did you think maybe you would lie | 18:09 |
and give false testimony to get the end of it? | 18:11 | |
Well, anything you think | 18:14 | |
you would do anything possible just to end those tortures? | 18:16 | |
- | No, nothing, nothing. | 18:20 |
Didn't come to my mind. | 18:22 | |
Only I think when it gets end. | 18:24 | |
I was waiting for that. | 18:28 | |
Man | You waited for that? | 18:29 |
- | Yeah, because in the first of investigation | 18:31 |
I ask for a lawyer | 18:36 | |
and they said, "you don't need any lawyer. | 18:38 | |
'This is military system, we can do anything, | 18:41 | |
whatever we want." | 18:43 | |
Man | And then when you went to Kandahar, | 18:47 |
what happened there? | 18:49 | |
- | Absolutely nothing. | 18:51 |
Even I wasn't taken to investigation. | 18:52 | |
They didn't say anything. | 18:55 | |
They didn't care about my health problems. | 18:56 | |
I spent there 29 days. | 18:59 | |
And then I sent to Guantanamo. | 19:01 | |
Man | And what were your health problems | 19:04 |
while you were in Kandahar? | 19:06 | |
even I had teeth problems | 19:07 | |
and I had still problems with my stomach. | 19:10 | |
Man | Could you eat? | 19:14 |
- | I complained many times. | 19:15 |
No one take the attention. | 19:17 | |
No one took attention for my complains. | 19:19 | |
Man | Could you eat while you were? | 19:20 |
- | Just a little bit. | 19:22 |
Woman | Were they caused by the beatings? | 19:24 |
- | Sorry? | 19:26 |
Woman | Were your health problems caused? | 19:27 |
- | Yeah, that was the cause of beating me. | 19:29 |
Man | And so at Kandahar you weren't | 19:32 |
as mistreated the same way you were in Bagram. | 19:35 | |
They left you alone in Kandahar, | 19:38 | |
is that what you're saying? | 19:39 | |
- | No, they even, they didn't take me to investigate. | 19:40 |
Man | They didn't do any interrogation, nothing? | 19:44 |
- | They didn't do anything. | 19:46 |
Man | Were you in solitary, in Kandahar? | 19:46 |
Or were you with other people in Kandahar? | 19:48 | |
Were you alone in solitary? | 19:51 | |
- | No, we were into the one big, | 19:53 |
Man | One big room? | 19:56 |
- | like a camp, | 19:57 |
and we weren't there 13. | 19:59 | |
Man | And could you describe your trip | 20:03 |
from Kandahar to Guantanamo? | 20:06 | |
- | And that was say, | 20:09 |
from one time they pick about 40 people | 20:13 | |
to our airplane and we were treated very badly | 20:18 | |
because they kept our arm | 20:24 | |
with a thing like a wire, even you couldn't move. | 20:29 | |
If you try to move, it hurts, unpleasurable, | 20:34 | |
it was very hard. | 20:38 | |
And we were taken, our heads were covered by black bag. | 20:39 | |
And when we change airplane somewhere, | 20:49 | |
I don't know even, | 20:52 | |
after six hours, or for I think, | 20:53 | |
and they change airplane. | 20:56 | |
And they used to wear goggles, big goggles. | 20:58 | |
And they use gloves for our hands, | 21:07 | |
our legs and arms were chuckle again | 21:14 | |
our legs were chuckled on the floor. | 21:20 | |
Even when we couldn't go more than once two toilets. | 21:25 | |
When we asked something | 21:30 | |
they have give only one apple and one water bottle. | 21:32 | |
That's all what we had. | 21:37 | |
And was a little longer than 22 hours | 21:40 | |
and we went to Guantanamo. | 21:46 | |
Man | Where you giving injections | 21:48 |
before you got on the plane | 21:50 | |
or any suppositories or anything, | 21:52 | |
did they give you any medication at all | 21:55 | |
before you got into plane? | 21:56 | |
- | No, just stick it, something on my neck, | 21:57 |
that's all. | 22:01 | |
Man | And did you wear diapers? | 22:02 |
- | Sorry? | 22:05 |
Man | Did you wear diapers? | 22:06 |
Did you have to wear diapers? | 22:07 | |
- | What kind of a diaper? | 22:08 |
Man | A diaper? | 22:09 |
- | What is diaper? | 22:10 |
Woman | (mumbles) | 22:11 |
- | Oh, like a Pampers, you mean? | 22:20 |
No, they didn't do anything. | 22:21 | |
Man | And what happened? | 22:25 |
Could you tell the story | 22:27 | |
of what happened when you were taken off the plane, | 22:28 | |
where they took you | 22:31 | |
and what that was like when you came to Guantanamo? | 22:32 | |
- | Yeah, (mumbles) | 22:38 |
in Guantanamo, we were taken into the bus, special bus | 22:40 | |
and all the legs, | 22:46 | |
we were put on the floor, | 22:51 | |
but touching our forehead | 22:58 | |
to the shoulder of other people from the fast, | 23:02 | |
and even we couldn't move. | 23:04 | |
If someone has tried to move, they come and beat us. | 23:05 | |
We couldn't move. | 23:10 | |
And that was very, very bad treatment for us. | 23:11 | |
And they just beat us, nothing more. | 23:15 | |
If someone has tried to move, | 23:19 | |
to make any movement. | 23:21 | |
Man | And where did they take you? | 23:23 |
- | They take me on some stones | 23:26 |
and I think just taking longer than half hour | 23:30 | |
and we entered into the camp of Delta | 23:35 | |
and they put us under the sky | 23:40 | |
and we were waiting then. | 23:43 | |
Some of us more than six hours, | 23:46 | |
some of us, more than eight hours, 10 hours. | 23:48 | |
Man | And then? | 23:53 |
- | And then we were taken into the medical building. | 23:54 |
Again, they cut off everything from us, old clothes | 24:01 | |
and we had one minutes to take a shower. | 24:06 | |
And I was taken to investigation room | 24:13 | |
and I spent there longer than eight hours, with no reason. | 24:18 | |
Man | You were interrogated for eight hours? | 24:25 |
- | I wasn't, that day I wasn't. | 24:27 |
I spent there about six, eight hours | 24:29 | |
no one interrogate me and I was taken to block the day. | 24:33 | |
Man | Do you know which camp that was? | 24:39 |
- | That was camp2 Mike block. | 24:41 |
Man | And were you in with others in that camp? | 24:49 |
- | Yeah, like cage, we were into the cage | 24:52 |
that was two meter square room. | 24:55 | |
They had a metal bar. | 25:01 | |
Man | And then? | 25:06 |
- | And the one small mattress | 25:07 |
and two sheets and one blanket, that's all what we had. | 25:10 | |
Man | And when were you fully interrogated in Guantanamo? | 25:15 |
Did it come soon after? | 25:17 | |
- | I was taken in the third day for interrogation, | 25:22 |
and when I entered into the room, | 25:30 | |
I think you were first translator | 25:37 | |
during of my investigation. | 25:40 | |
Yeah, and the Russian was the first translator. | 25:41 | |
And I explained everything | 25:46 | |
and one of integrator said, | 25:48 | |
that's my older information. | 25:52 | |
doesn't submit with the other, what I have given. | 25:55 | |
But he was lying. | 26:00 | |
I didn't say anything wrong. | 26:01 | |
I didn't change any information. | 26:03 | |
What I said, I repeated, just nothing more. | 26:06 | |
And when I ask how long I be here | 26:11 | |
he said, "I cannot say anything, but maybe few weeks | 26:13 | |
"if you compromise with us, you'll go home | 26:19 | |
"after a few weeks." | 26:22 | |
I said, okay, but | 26:25 | |
Man | Did you believe them? | 26:25 |
- | I didn't believe. | 26:26 |
Man | Why not? | 26:27 |
- | Because I was with no reason there. | 26:29 |
Even when they ask why I am here, they couldn't answer me. | 26:33 | |
- | And were you mistreated while you were there, | 26:39 |
in Guantanamo? | 26:42 | |
- | Yeah, when I tried to ask for my rights | 26:44 |
and a second investigation, | 26:51 | |
second integration was very badly | 26:53 | |
and he said, "you need a room, your rights." | 26:55 | |
I said, yes. | 26:58 | |
And they have given my rights by sending to mental clinic. | 26:59 | |
Man | Could you describe exactly | 27:05 |
how that interrogation worked | 27:06 | |
and how they ended up sending you | 27:08 | |
to a mental clinic and what happened? | 27:09 | |
Kinda tell the story about that whole thing? | 27:11 | |
- | Yeah, first time. | 27:13 |
Sorry, I was sent for punish, | 27:18 | |
for punish block. | 27:22 | |
You know, they set a new, | 27:22 | |
and block November for punishment | 27:24 | |
and I was sent there. | 27:28 | |
And no one could explain to me, what's a reason. | 27:29 | |
And next day, when I complained about my situation | 27:33 | |
and why I was sent there and my interrogator | 27:37 | |
called Russian interpreter, and he said | 27:42 | |
as he promised me, he will give it to my rights. | 27:47 | |
He said, "that is is your right." | 27:54 | |
And that day I understood | 27:57 | |
that I was wrong by asking for my rights. | 28:01 | |
And after two days, | 28:04 | |
no, sorry, I spent there eight days with no reason | 28:07 | |
that they said I tried hurt myself. | 28:11 | |
How, I don't know. | 28:16 | |
They said they have found something in my room. | 28:17 | |
That was a lie. | 28:20 | |
That wasn't true. | 28:23 | |
And I was I sent to mental clinic. | 28:24 | |
I spent there a few days | 28:29 | |
then I was sent another time to another block. | 28:30 | |
And, but I was monitoring that, that time. | 28:37 | |
And I spent the one day | 28:41 | |
and one of soldier reported to DOC, | 28:45 | |
Detention Operating Center, that I want to hurt myself. | 28:49 | |
I was taken to punish block again, | 28:54 | |
that time for India block, | 28:55 | |
that work was for punishing detainees. | 29:00 | |
I was taken there, I spent three days, | 29:04 | |
three, four days | 29:07 | |
and I was sent back to another block, to Alpha block. | 29:09 | |
Man | So why did they keep doing that to you? | 29:14 |
What do you think was going on? | 29:17 | |
- | Because I was lying, you know | 29:18 |
You know, I wasn't giving a true information. | 29:20 | |
Man | That's what they said? | 29:23 |
- | And they said, yes. | 29:24 |
And because I asked for lawyer, | 29:25 | |
they said, "you don't need the lawyer." | 29:29 | |
Man | And that's why they put you in a mental block? | 29:32 |
- | Yes, because I asked for my rights. | 29:35 |
Man | And what can you describe | 29:37 |
how it in the mental block? | 29:40 | |
What the experience was like and who else was there | 29:42 | |
and what you did all day? | 29:44 | |
- | First time | 29:46 |
it's very difficult to remember by detail everything | 29:48 | |
because it was a long time ago and they'll bring you pills | 29:51 | |
samples, even they don't explain | 29:58 | |
what kind of pills they are feeding you. | 30:00 | |
Man | What are they (mumbles) | 30:05 |
- | If you refuse, they will give you shot injection. | 30:05 |
And because when I spent on special block a few weeks | 30:10 | |
I didn't understand | 30:15 | |
that they are treating with the people | 30:16 | |
worse than an animal, | 30:18 | |
because some animals are treaten better than humans, | 30:19 | |
human and other countries | 30:24 | |
because some detainees were taken by force for injection | 30:26 | |
when they keep doing injection after 20 days, they repeat. | 30:31 | |
After the third time you lost your mind. | 30:37 | |
Man | So what happened to you with the pills | 30:40 |
and with the injections, what did happen to you? | 30:42 | |
- | First time, they tried to burn detainee on the bed. | 30:45 |
They burn everything, and they gave you one injection | 30:52 | |
after the injection, even a human | 30:58 | |
doesn't need a life anymore, because he wants to die, | 31:03 | |
after that injection. | 31:06 | |
Man | What does it do to you? | 31:07 |
What did that injection do? | 31:09 | |
- | That's very difficult for me | 31:10 |
because all my body was shaking after that injection. | 31:12 | |
And I didn't understand | 31:18 | |
because they were threatening me | 31:19 | |
by giving another injection, | 31:22 | |
If I don't behave. | 31:25 | |
Man | Were you ever violent yourself? | 31:30 |
Did they ever, | 31:31 | |
did you ever attack a guard or attack something? | 31:32 | |
- | Never, never | 31:35 |
Man | Did you attacked the walls or attack? | 31:36 |
- | Nope, no, no. | 31:38 |
Man | Throw things or do anything that, | 31:40 |
throw water on the guard? | 31:43 | |
- | First year no, | 31:44 |
I didn't do anything. | 31:46 | |
I didn't offend any soldiers. | 31:47 | |
I didn't offend any of them | 31:49 | |
Man | Later on, you did? | 31:52 |
- | Because they treated unjust with me, | 31:53 |
then I stepped to do, because I couldn't do anything | 31:56 | |
than do those bad things. | 31:59 | |
I didn't offend anyone. | 32:01 | |
I didn't attack anyone. | 32:03 | |
Man | When you, later on what happened, | 32:06 |
could you tell me what happened later on? | 32:08 | |
- | When they send someone else to mental block | 32:15 |
they will be in the list of, you know, psych list. | 32:19 | |
They will come and ask and that | 32:28 | |
they will do some situation to make their life | 32:31 | |
their being there a little bit easier. | 32:33 | |
They try to give chockers, play chess | 32:37 | |
and they change the food. | 32:43 | |
They treat a little bit better than other detainees | 32:46 | |
that was everything, what can do. | 32:53 | |
And they prepared for the next investigation, | 32:54 | |
that mental clinic prepared all the detainees | 32:58 | |
for next interrogation, that's all. | 33:04 | |
Man | When you took pills, what did the pills do to you? | 33:07 |
- | Nothing, if there are those pills, | 33:10 |
I just slept nothing more. | 33:12 | |
Man | And what were you thinking | 33:15 |
while you were in the middle block? | 33:17 | |
And were going through all this? | 33:18 | |
- | Because I asked for my rights. | 33:22 |
I refuse to answer before I got all the information | 33:24 | |
from them, about my rights, about everything. | 33:27 | |
They couldn't break the law openly | 33:33 | |
and they use another way to punish me | 33:37 | |
because I am asking you for rights, for the law. | 33:41 | |
Man | And when you met other people | 33:44 |
in the mental clinic, what kind of people did you meet? | 33:45 | |
And what happened to them? | 33:48 | |
- | Actually, most of them were showing themselves | 33:52 |
like a crazy, but they were completely healthy. | 33:54 | |
There were escaping that interrogation period. | 33:58 | |
Not to give a wrong information | 34:02 | |
because they use all the information. | 34:06 | |
What you say against you, | 34:08 | |
but never for your benefits, never. | 34:11 | |
Man | Are you saying the other people | 34:16 |
in the middle block were faking it so they could be there? | 34:17 | |
Or were they crazy themselves? | 34:20 | |
- | They show themselves like a crazy | 34:22 |
but most of them weren't. | 34:25 | |
Man | But most of them were not. | 34:27 |
- | Were not. | 34:28 |
Man | Were you able to talk to them? | 34:29 |
- | Yes. | 34:31 |
I learned their Farsi. | 34:32 | |
I learned that Arabic. | 34:34 | |
Man | And were they beaten? | 34:36 |
- | Yes, they were beaten | 34:39 |
how to say, for example they were treated, | 34:41 | |
all of us were treated very badly there | 34:45 | |
because they should do attack into the room, anytime. | 34:47 | |
I mean, soldiers could enter into the room anytime | 34:49 | |
they could spray anytime the gas | 34:53 | |
they could make any injection any time when they want. | 34:57 | |
Man | So could you describe when you were attacked? | 35:01 |
One time, can you describe the situation? | 35:05 | |
- | Okay, they come say they will come | 35:07 |
and say just come front | 35:11 | |
of the fan and you should calm. | 35:13 | |
Even, you don't come. | 35:17 | |
I am warning you once. | 35:19 | |
And they prepare special team for entering into the room | 35:21 | |
with mask, with everything, with the big glasses (mumbles) | 35:27 | |
and they prepared everything. | 35:32 | |
Because all the detainees | 35:34 | |
couldn't patient, because they were treated very badly. | 35:38 | |
They were ready for everything | 35:41 | |
for hurts themselves, to do anything beacause that was, | 35:43 | |
I couldn't say that was a revenge to give them, | 35:48 | |
but they were tired. | 35:50 | |
US I may say military | 35:53 | |
and the US mental clinic made them tired. | 35:56 | |
Man | And to you, were you attacked? | 36:01 |
- | Yeah, sure, because I didn't... | 36:03 |
who likes to be monitored 24 hours a day? | 36:07 | |
No one, even we couldn't go to the bathroom | 36:11 | |
without monitoring. | 36:17 | |
Man | So why were you attack? | 36:18 |
What happened? | 36:19 | |
- | You know what they say, | 36:21 |
show me that one, show me that one (mumbles) | 36:22 | |
be controlled 24 hours can not be command | 36:26 | |
under command, 24 hours. | 36:29 | |
Sometimes I refused. | 36:33 | |
I said, no, why? | 36:34 | |
You have no reason to ask you didn't enter anything | 36:36 | |
into the room by breaking some rule. | 36:39 | |
So if you sure, | 36:42 | |
nothing wrong in my room, why are you asking? | 36:44 | |
" No, no, you should be under command. | 36:45 | |
"what we say, you must do." | 36:49 | |
Every step, they're attacking the room. | 36:53 | |
Man | Could you describe the attack | 36:56 |
and what happened to you? | 36:57 | |
- | Yeah, they will. | 36:58 |
They had two nurses and a one special team | 36:59 | |
that was in special mask, special glasses, a big glasses, | 37:08 | |
and they stand front of the cell, | 37:16 | |
front of the cage and the gas was ready to spread. | 37:19 | |
And before they entered the room, | 37:27 | |
that's put the gas first, and they entered into the room. | 37:28 | |
Man | And where they take you? | 37:33 |
- | They took for special room and they bank | 37:34 |
on the banners, on the bed | 37:38 | |
and they made the injection by force | 37:41 | |
Man | So they didn't beat you, | 37:44 |
they just gave you an injection. | 37:45 | |
- | No, to hold you, to keep you, they may hurt annything, | 37:47 |
they may push everywhere where they want. | 37:50 | |
Man | And did you resist? | 37:55 |
- | Sure. | 37:57 |
Man | Did that make it worse? | 37:59 |
Did they then treat you worse? | 38:00 | |
- | Yeah, yeah, yeah. | 38:01 |
If you try to resist, they make it worse. | 38:01 | |
Man | But it was worth it for you to fight them. | 38:06 |
- | No, I didn't fight. | 38:08 |
Never, I tried to escape. | 38:10 | |
That may action, | 38:14 | |
they took it like a resistance, nothing more. | 38:16 | |
Man | What do you mean by you tried to escape? | 38:20 |
- | Okay, if someone sprays a gas | 38:22 |
to your face, you try to keep your eyes back. | 38:26 | |
Even from the window they open the window | 38:30 | |
they spread from everywhere I guess. | 38:32 | |
They pick that detainee, | 38:37 | |
who was your neighbor out | 38:39 | |
they enter from this neighbor room, | 38:41 | |
they spread from everywhere, gas. | 38:44 | |
They put it down, and then that's all. | 38:47 | |
And then they pick you to bed | 38:50 | |
on the bed to make the injection. | 38:54 | |
You spend there longer than four hours. | 38:58 | |
If you spent time with no problems, | 39:00 | |
they enter you into the room, they take you back. | 39:07 | |
Man | So you returned to the same room. | 39:11 |
- | The same room, with the no stuff into the room. | 39:12 |
They pick everything like a punish, | 39:16 | |
because you resist, you are punished | 39:19 | |
under punishment and they take everything. | 39:22 | |
Man | And when you left the mental block | 39:24 |
where did they take you then? | 39:26 | |
- | Everywhere, and one time they picked me to golf block | 39:28 |
and I was monitoring 24 hours. | 39:37 | |
Two soldiers from a mental clinic or writing everything, | 39:42 | |
were sitting in front of my cage. | 39:46 | |
They were writing all the my moment, | 39:50 | |
what I'm doing, even I'm going to bathroom. | 39:51 | |
When the doctor read everything, | 39:54 | |
and he complain, why you're monitoring everything, | 39:57 | |
why they are taking notes. | 39:59 | |
He said, just they're monitoring nothing worst for you. | 40:01 | |
Just don't do anything wrong. | 40:05 | |
That's doesn't make it a problem. | 40:08 | |
As I said, okay, that was all there. | 40:11 | |
I spent a few weeks there. | 40:13 | |
I couldn't live longer another blocks | 40:22 | |
because, okay, we have to do special treatment | 40:27 | |
for you because you had mental problems. | 40:30 | |
Actually, I hadn't. | 40:32 | |
And they picked me to mental clinic again | 40:35 | |
because we cannot do a special treatment | 40:41 | |
with you to give a special food | 40:44 | |
to give extra staff than other detainees | 40:46 | |
because they start making problems | 40:50 | |
by asking we needed those stuff too. | 40:53 | |
So they tried to kept me. | 40:56 | |
Man | Did a psychologist or a psychiatrist | 40:59 |
ever interview you? | 41:01 | |
- | Yeah, twice in a week. | 41:03 |
Man | Could you describe what that is like? | 41:06 |
- | He comes and, | 41:09 |
will you behave, want to hurt yourself. | 41:14 | |
What kind of problems you have. | 41:19 | |
But when you explain your problems | 41:21 | |
your situation, they never use for your benefits. | 41:25 | |
They use for investigators benefits. | 41:29 | |
You may investigate with that way. | 41:31 | |
You may interogate with that way. | 41:34 | |
He had the problems. | 41:36 | |
Actually the doctors prepared for investigators, | 41:38 | |
for investigation nothing more. | 41:42 | |
Man | Did you participate? | 41:45 |
Did you answer their questions? | 41:46 | |
- | During the interview, what is cycle, | 41:49 |
what is (indistinct)? | 41:51 | |
Yes, because between them were some good people | 41:53 | |
who really wished goods for us. | 42:01 | |
And they suggest to answer correctly to their question. | 42:04 | |
If we need to get out from mental clinic | 42:09 | |
and I answered what they expected | 42:13 | |
and I left that place even I got tired then, | 42:17 | |
because, you know, | 42:22 | |
human being needs communicate with other people as well. | 42:24 | |
I couldn't live there anymore. | 42:27 | |
And they left me alone | 42:30 | |
until a group of investigator came from my country. | 42:33 | |
Man | From Uzbekistan? | 42:41 |
- | From Uzbekistan. | 42:42 |
Man | Can you describe how that went? | 42:43 |
What that was about? | 42:46 | |
- | That was very bad treatment, that's all what I can say. | 42:46 |
Before that I was taken for interrogation room | 42:50 | |
and one US Navy integrator | 42:58 | |
enter the room with the Russian translator | 43:01 | |
and just entered and said, "you know (mumbles) | 43:05 | |
"I am your future." | 43:12 | |
I said, really? | 43:14 | |
Who are you? | 43:16 | |
You are a God | 43:17 | |
if you, my future, because everything comes from a Alah. | 43:19 | |
I said, you're my God? | 43:24 | |
He said, "no because everything concern | 43:28 | |
"with my notes about you. | 43:32 | |
"If you write something to commander, | 43:33 | |
you will leave this camp as soon as I get response | 43:35 | |
from commander, I may write a positive things about you | 43:39 | |
if you answer my question." | 43:43 | |
I said, I answered everything. | 43:44 | |
If you need some information, go back to my case. | 43:46 | |
You may read everything, nothing to add. | 43:48 | |
And he start to yell at me, start to just come | 43:51 | |
and he pushed on my neck | 43:55 | |
And he said he started to do some funny things | 43:57 | |
because he wasn't interrogator | 44:02 | |
as other one, he had no experience. | 44:07 | |
He's just | 44:10 | |
he wants to show himself that he may quit everything | 44:10 | |
and I'll afraid of his treatment | 44:13 | |
and then I'll say another thing | 44:15 | |
what I didn't say before. | 44:17 | |
I said, are you crazy? | 44:19 | |
And then he left the room and he come back after half hours | 44:21 | |
and said, "aha, I understood everything | 44:24 | |
"because you were treated as a crazy and you're crazy." | 44:28 | |
I said, okay, if I'm crazy, go away. | 44:32 | |
Why you are interrogating me? | 44:35 | |
And he started yell, to push me again. | 44:37 | |
I didn't say anything. | 44:41 | |
I didn't do anything. | 44:43 | |
And the next day I was taken to investigate | 44:45 | |
with people from my country, that's in the back. | 44:52 | |
I don't want to go back. | 44:57 | |
Man | Did the Red cross talk to you? | 44:59 |
- | Yeah, but I did understand that | 45:04 |
nothing benefit I can take from them. | 45:06 | |
I didn't communicate them. | 45:09 | |
I said, okay, just a regular conversation, nothing more. | 45:12 | |
Man | You didn't feel they could help you or you didn't? | 45:16 |
- | No, I didn't feel. | 45:19 |
Man | Why not? | 45:21 |
- | Because they were working for the US government. | 45:22 |
They were taking, collecting, selecting some information | 45:24 | |
and that's US government couldn't find | 45:28 | |
during interrogation. | 45:32 | |
Man | Did you see other people who were actually, | 45:36 |
besides being hurt? | 45:42 | |
Did you see other people who were beaten | 45:43 | |
in other situations? | 45:46 | |
- | Yes, sure. | 45:47 |
Even in mental clinic, I guess | 45:48 | |
in the end of November, 2002, they brought 14 detainees | 45:52 | |
from Russia who were captured, | 46:02 | |
who escaped from Cheech, that time they told me | 46:05 | |
that history had one of them was treated very badly. | 46:11 | |
He was beaten and he was tortured. | 46:15 | |
Even they pulled | 46:19 | |
a very hard projector on his head to affect his mind. | 46:22 | |
I don't know what they want that time | 46:29 | |
and the, he was tortured very badly, | 46:32 | |
even he was tortured in Russia, | 46:34 | |
then he was sent to Guantanamo. | 46:36 | |
Man | He told you this? | 46:39 |
- | Yeah, he told me that, his history. | 46:40 |
Man | Did you ever observe | 46:42 |
or witness anybody being tortured? | 46:43 | |
Could you see that? | 46:46 | |
Or people just told you | 46:46 | |
when they came back to the cells. | 46:48 | |
- | In Guantanamo, I mean he was tortured. | 46:51 |
No, I know. | 46:53 | |
I knew one group of detainees | 46:55 | |
who were sent to another country | 46:58 | |
for torturing and the for investigating. | 47:01 | |
And US government used way | 47:05 | |
to send detainees to another country | 47:07 | |
to find another information. | 47:12 | |
Man | Do you know what country | 47:15 |
US would send those people to? | 47:16 | |
- | One group? | 47:21 |
I think 16 of detainees were sent | 47:21 | |
into Arabic country, | 47:28 | |
I don't know exactly where an Arabic country is, | 47:30 | |
one of Arab countries, and they were tortured there. | 47:33 | |
And then they were sent back to Guantanamo | 47:38 | |
they kept and, and close to beach in Guantanamo | 47:41 | |
because one of soldiers told me that history | 47:46 | |
when I was in Yiguana, in camp Yiguana. | 47:51 | |
And he told me that history, that they were sent | 47:55 | |
to another Arab country to torture. | 47:59 | |
And then they were pick back to Guantanamo.. | 48:04 | |
And they were in bad situation now in bad treatment. | 48:09 | |
And because they complained many times | 48:13 | |
about a situation in Yiguana camp | 48:15 | |
because that time US government said | 48:17 | |
"I am not enemy combatant." | 48:20 | |
And even the time I was monitoring 24 hours | 48:22 | |
in day, I said, I am not enemy combatant and I am innocent. | 48:24 | |
Why are you monitoring me? | 48:30 | |
I was completely disagree with that situation. | 48:32 | |
And then honest, and I try not to follow the rule. | 48:34 | |
If I am not enemy, if I am innocent. | 48:38 | |
Why I should be controlled? | 48:43 | |
Just opened the door. | 48:46 | |
Let me go away. | 48:47 | |
Where you go, because have you heard about Bumgarner" | 48:49 | |
A Colonel Bumgarner, Mike Bumgarner? | 48:55 | |
Man | No. | 48:58 |
- | Yeah, and he was the commander | 48:59 |
of JDOG joined detention operating group. | 49:02 | |
And he tried to help for people to do something. | 49:08 | |
And I heard from my lawyers, | 49:20 | |
he treated very badly from US government. | 49:22 | |
He tried to do something good for detainees | 49:25 | |
because he did didn't understand the time | 49:27 | |
we weren't treating very badly | 49:29 | |
and that we were innocent. | 49:31 | |
And that he tried to explain the situation, | 49:34 | |
what's going on in out of Guantanamo. | 49:36 | |
And he told me that, he said that he can not send me back | 49:40 | |
to my country and they're working on my case. | 49:43 | |
And then I asked | 49:48 | |
I ask if so, why you don't follow? | 49:49 | |
That time, they made it a small wall. | 49:52 | |
They kept there the convention of Geneva, | 49:58 | |
from Geneva, you know general convention? | 50:03 | |
Man | Mhmhh. | 50:05 |
- | And there was a law | 50:06 |
under some rules, but they didn't follow. | 50:09 | |
When I asked them to follow that rules. | 50:12 | |
They said, you know, we just hang them with and follow | 50:15 | |
and then accomplish to Bumgarner, | 50:18 | |
he said, you know the situation, | 50:20 | |
all that comes from the top, I can not do anything. | 50:22 | |
I should follow this order | 50:25 | |
but I'll do my best to make your situation better. | 50:27 | |
He tried to help. | 50:30 | |
And even we were controlled very badly there. | 50:34 | |
And I was sent, even, they send me after CRT. | 50:37 | |
You know what's a CRT, | 50:43 | |
after CRT, I was treated very badly, | 50:45 | |
then I can't play that on my situation. | 50:47 | |
And because of it, | 50:49 | |
I was sent to mental block twice, | 50:50 | |
because I was asked for the law, | 50:54 | |
that law they should follow. | 50:57 | |
Man | So after the CRT, when you asked for the law, | 50:59 |
they sent you to the mental block? | 51:01 | |
- | Yeah, to mental block. | 51:02 |
And then the commander of that mental block explained me | 51:05 | |
that I should follow the instruction. | 51:09 | |
And he said, we know you didn't do anything wrong | 51:13 | |
but we follow the older from the highest one. | 51:17 | |
Man | Did you see any dogs | 51:22 |
while you were in Guantanamo? | 51:24 | |
- | Yeah, sure. | 51:25 |
When they search a block, they entered into the block | 51:26 | |
and they keep around. | 51:29 | |
They took a circle with dogs, | 51:34 | |
the special force with a special clothes. | 51:37 | |
Man | Did they use the dogs with you too then? | 51:43 |
with the dogs there, whenever searching your cell? | 51:46 | |
- | They did enter into the block. | 51:50 |
They stand around the block, but they treated very badly. | 51:53 | |
When a friend of mine ask for the commander | 51:59 | |
higher than Capitan in Yuguana camp, | 52:04 | |
it happened when they told us we are not enemy. | 52:08 | |
And when they said, there was a very funny system. | 52:13 | |
Soldiers try to do some troubles | 52:21 | |
by themselves because they knew | 52:24 | |
and they know now, no one can complain higher to soldiers | 52:27 | |
your complaint doesn't go anywhere. | 52:32 | |
And they tried to play with us during, after pray call | 52:36 | |
during have over pray. | 52:40 | |
They come out and they start yelling, started making noise. | 52:41 | |
No, to ignore us, our pray | 52:49 | |
because it prohibited during after pray | 52:51 | |
to make a noise especially for the pray call. | 52:54 | |
And they start laughing of our religion. | 52:59 | |
And they went pray call. | 53:07 | |
you know, pray call when comes from speaker. | 53:09 | |
They were laughing at prey calls, making joke on it. | 53:13 | |
That's offending all religion. | 53:16 | |
It's very bad for Muslims. | 53:18 | |
And a friend of mine that time | 53:21 | |
when we were in Yiguana camp after CRT ask, | 53:23 | |
"okay, if so, I need to commander" | 53:26 | |
From, soldier asked to call commander. | 53:30 | |
He said, no, if not, I will ask for (indistinct). | 53:33 | |
It's okay, call. | 53:38 | |
He said, no, no, no, no, | 53:39 | |
but he didn't do anything wrong. | 53:41 | |
Just he broke the TV. | 53:43 | |
Then came, one a special group with a special car, | 53:46 | |
with a big weapons. | 53:50 | |
That's time I scared even, | 53:51 | |
who we are like a terrorist they treated us. | 53:53 | |
He was taking to special place | 53:57 | |
I don't know where that time. | 53:59 | |
Man | Did you see the Qur'an being? | 54:03 |
- | Yeah, sure. | 54:05 |
Man | Could you describe what you saw? | 54:06 |
- | You know, some soldiers explained the situation, | 54:10 |
when I was in chattle block, | 54:13 | |
they made a special problems with the Qur'an, | 54:16 | |
they have taken one Afghan detainee out | 54:19 | |
and he just entered the room | 54:24 | |
for surgery room and he just picked the Qur'an. | 54:26 | |
And that time was (indistinct) for shoulder | 54:29 | |
not to touch Qur'an because that was organized | 54:31 | |
to make special problems | 54:35 | |
with the camp, even not just with block, | 54:37 | |
they organized problems with Muslim, why? | 54:40 | |
If someone else picks Qur'an | 54:43 | |
and throws away to toilet, that's a very bad | 54:45 | |
bad for Muslims to see even, | 54:49 | |
and then not to make problems | 54:51 | |
not to protest for that action. | 54:53 | |
And he was just entered into the room. | 54:55 | |
He just picked the Qur'an, threw the into the toilet. | 54:57 | |
Man | You saw that? | 55:01 |
- | No, friend of mine, | 55:02 |
he was in that neighbor room | 55:03 | |
when Afghan was taken out from his room. | 55:05 | |
And that time he was a Arab from Arabic country. | 55:09 | |
And at that time he start yelling. | 55:12 | |
He was informing everyone, | 55:16 | |
I am Muslim, just look at it. | 55:18 | |
He makes the problems on purpose. | 55:20 | |
And that was the beginning of problems. | 55:25 | |
And that was the beginning of hunger strike. | 55:28 | |
Man | Did you participate in the hunger strike? | 55:32 |
- | Yes. | 55:34 |
Man | Could you describe how that happened | 55:34 |
and what happened to you? | 55:37 | |
- | And I start, keep hunger strike, | 55:38 |
I didn't eat. | 55:44 | |
Didn't drink anything during 12 days. | 55:45 | |
And the commander of mental clinic | 55:49 | |
came in front of my room with a translator | 55:54 | |
and he explained the situation, | 55:57 | |
and he said, "we should take you into the mental clinic." | 56:00 | |
Because they started making problems | 56:03 | |
and you get punished with no reason. | 56:06 | |
We now, you do everything, | 56:08 | |
you don't do anything bad. | 56:10 | |
And they said, no. | 56:12 | |
And I was taking a special room. | 56:16 | |
That period of hunger strike. | 56:18 | |
And a captain from Navy, | 56:20 | |
Navy captain entered into the room. | 56:25 | |
Okay, "why are you keep hunger strike? | 56:27 | |
This time I explained, | 56:31 | |
your soldiers, and your government | 56:32 | |
insulting our religion, even, I don't know why I'm here. | 56:35 | |
What's the reason? | 56:39 | |
That's really difficult. | 56:40 | |
Okay, if you want, I may start eating now | 56:41 | |
but I should know why I am here. | 56:45 | |
How long I'm going to be here. | 56:47 | |
Explain what reason, if I innocent, just show me my crime. | 56:50 | |
And he said, that's a very difficult question. | 56:58 | |
I can not get answer right now, | 57:00 | |
but I may send your request to state department. | 57:02 | |
I said, okay, but you should eat now, | 57:06 | |
but I am not going to die during. | 57:08 | |
Okay, how long I asked, how long it takes time? | 57:09 | |
He said, "two, three days." | 57:13 | |
Okay, I wait for two, three days. | 57:15 | |
I'm not going to die during of two, three days. | 57:18 | |
That was six or seven days of my hunger strike. | 57:20 | |
And that affect very badly for US government. | 57:25 | |
They didn't accept that hunger strike. | 57:28 | |
That was the first hunger strike. | 57:30 | |
And I explained, I'm not going to die | 57:32 | |
during of two, three days. | 57:33 | |
Okay, I will wait for your response, Okay? | 57:34 | |
He said, "okay." | 57:37 | |
And I was in back, but | 57:37 | |
Man | Were you forced fed? | 57:45 |
- | That time no. | 57:48 |
Man | Sometime you were? | 57:50 |
- | Sometime, yes. | 57:51 |
Man | Could you describe the other times (mumbles) | 57:52 |
- | They pulled a plastic tube through your nose | 57:53 |
and they fed you with the (indistinct) | 57:56 | |
Man | And why did you go on hunger strike the second time? | 58:00 |
Or third time or (mumbles) | 58:02 | |
- | Because of, again, there were making problems | 58:06 |
with our with our religion, | 58:11 | |
by throwing Qur'an into the toilet | 58:13 | |
and ripping Qur'an, just tearing them to piece. | 58:15 | |
Man | And that's why you went on a hunger strike? | 58:19 |
- | Yep. | 58:21 |
Man | And how many days was it | 58:22 |
before they started force feeding you? | 58:23 | |
- | No, after the third time | 58:26 |
I was taken to hospital and I was forced to eat | 58:29 | |
and they fed me through plastic tube through my nose. | 58:34 | |
Even the time I refuse, but I was forced | 58:40 | |
Man | And how long did that go on? | 58:42 |
- | Six days. | 58:44 |
Man | And then why you stop? | 58:45 |
- | And they said | 58:47 |
they're going to do a better condition for Muslim. | 58:49 | |
They never going to makeup problems with our religion. | 58:52 | |
And then I stopped. | 58:56 | |
Man | Did you ever try to commit suicide? | 58:59 |
- | Sorry? | 59:02 |
Man | Did he ever try to commit suicide? | 59:02 |
- | They blind me on it | 59:04 |
and it was very difficult to be patient | 59:06 | |
to their unjust treatment. | 59:09 | |
I show myself to escape the treatment | 59:12 | |
that's I want suicide but that wasn't true. | 59:16 | |
Man | Did you know anybody | 59:20 |
who did try to commit suicide? | 59:22 | |
- | Yes, I think already six of them died | 59:24 |
because it's prohibited to kill themself for Muslim | 59:32 | |
because that was very bad treatment for Muslim, | 59:38 | |
even they couldn't patient for the treatment. | 59:41 | |
That there is a reason. | 59:45 | |
Man | In the metal clinic, | 59:47 |
did you see people who tried to commit suicide? | 59:48 | |
- | No, they were very clever. | 59:52 |
I may say like me. | 59:59 | |
Man | Excuse me. | 1:00:01 |
- | I may say like me, to escape investigation process. | 1:00:02 |
Man | And the way you escaped | 1:00:10 |
from the investigation processes is. | 1:00:11 | |
Man | Because they start pushing me | 1:00:13 |
to give wrong information | 1:00:15 | |
to catch me and some wrong information. | 1:00:17 | |
I didn't want it. | 1:00:20 | |
I said, if you're (indistinct) something, | 1:00:21 | |
you're sure that, you'll have to say all information. | 1:00:24 | |
Man | Did you, was the doctors coming? | 1:00:35 |
Were doctors present a lot with you too, | 1:00:38 | |
besides psychologist? | 1:00:40 | |
- | What kind of doctors? | 1:00:41 |
Man | Well, | 1:00:43 |
- | Medical, physical. | |
Man | Why were they doing medical checks on you? | 1:00:44 |
- | Yeah, sometimes when you call doctor | 1:00:50 |
even nurse, they didn't come, | 1:00:52 | |
to make it even a regular apartment | 1:00:56 | |
when you complaint it will be taken | 1:00:59 | |
after a few months, for example, I can pull up many times. | 1:01:00 | |
They just pulled up my teeth with no reason. | 1:01:05 | |
I said, just fill it. | 1:01:07 | |
They said, "no, we will just pull them off." | 1:01:08 | |
And they pulled off my teeth, five of them. | 1:01:11 | |
And when I had some physical, medical problems | 1:01:19 | |
I tell psych doctors to care about my medical problems, | 1:01:25 | |
physical medical problems, and they try to do something. | 1:01:31 | |
Man | So when you came from Kandahar | 1:01:35 |
to Guantanamo, you still had a medical problem. | 1:01:38 | |
- | Yep. | 1:01:42 |
Man | Did the doctors | 1:01:43 |
- | Even they didn't pay attention | 1:01:44 |
to my problems that day. | 1:01:45 | |
Man | Did they ever (mumbles) | 1:01:47 |
- | Didn't | 1:01:48 |
Man | They never did. | 1:01:50 |
- | They never did. | 1:01:50 |
Man | When you left Guantanamo | 1:01:52 |
were the medical problems still there? | 1:01:53 | |
- | When I left, no. | 1:01:56 |
Man | They went away. | 1:01:58 |
- | Yeah (mumbles) | 1:01:59 |
Man | Could you describe how you first found a lawyer | 1:02:01 |
and your meetings | 1:02:05 | |
with lawyers and how that worked? | 1:02:06 | |
- | Through, Abubakar, you know him? | 1:02:12 |
Man | Yes. | 1:02:14 |
- | He said, if you want, I may sent my lawyer, | 1:02:15 |
they may send just someone else to be your own lawyer. | 1:02:20 | |
I said, okay, that was the reason. | 1:02:23 | |
But during CRT, they said I will have one | 1:02:26 | |
a military lawyers. | 1:02:33 | |
Actually, he worked to make it worse for me not to help. | 1:02:36 | |
Man | Why was that? | 1:02:41 |
- | Because during of military tribunal he told | 1:02:43 |
another thing but I did understand that time, English, | 1:02:50 | |
not too much, but I could catch them | 1:02:54 | |
when they tried to give wrong information. | 1:02:59 | |
Even translator worked for them, not for me. | 1:03:03 | |
When I said, | 1:03:09 | |
for example, when I said I left at village | 1:03:10 | |
one day before they start bombarding that village | 1:03:14 | |
and the interpreter said, "he left that village | 1:03:16 | |
"while they were bombarding." | 1:03:21 | |
I said, stop. | 1:03:23 | |
And I asked in English that time, wasn't my English like now | 1:03:25 | |
I asked the president of the tribunal, | 1:03:30 | |
You asked that question, yeah? | 1:03:34 | |
"Yes." | 1:03:35 | |
And she gives to you that answer? | 1:03:36 | |
"Yes," | 1:03:38 | |
that was wrong. | 1:03:39 | |
And she stands as by keeping up her hand. | 1:03:40 | |
I apologize, get my apologize for tribunal, I was wrong. | 1:03:43 | |
I said, why are you playing hard? | 1:03:47 | |
This is tribunal, | 1:03:50 | |
not just regular appointment with the doctor, | 1:03:51 | |
if you didn't have some appointment to make us some problems | 1:03:53 | |
or mistake acceptable, what are you doing? | 1:03:56 | |
And I feel refuse from that translator | 1:03:59 | |
and her name was Shakhida or Shakhista, | 1:04:03 | |
I guess he was from US. | 1:04:08 | |
And she understood Uzbek, Russian language. | 1:04:11 | |
Woman | (mumbles) | 1:04:19 |
- | We were taking together even. | 1:04:22 |
Man | Did you know him before you came to Guantanamo? | 1:04:24 |
- | No, I didn't. | 1:04:26 |
He was very funny guy. | 1:04:28 | |
I am talking about, Uzbek (laughs) | 1:04:30 | |
Woman | (mumbles) | 1:04:34 |
- | Yeah, I heard about he's lawyer, but I am not sure | 1:04:36 |
that he really is or not. | 1:04:39 | |
(murmurs) | 1:04:40 | |
Man | Can we talk about that on camera? | 1:04:42 |
Can we ask you about that? | 1:04:44 | |
Can you talk? | 1:04:46 | |
- | Yes, sure. | 1:04:47 |
Man | There were other Uzbeks in Guantanamo? | 1:04:48 |
And did you know them? | 1:04:51 | |
And could you tell us how you got to know them | 1:04:52 | |
and how you have to be friendly with them? | 1:04:55 | |
- | I didn't know one of them even | 1:04:58 |
before Guantanamo, when first time I was taken | 1:05:00 | |
to mental clinic, I heard about Abu Bakr, | 1:05:02 | |
his real name, Ibeck | 1:05:06 | |
issued release from Guantanamo, | 1:05:09 | |
now to Ireland and he looks so funny. | 1:05:11 | |
You never miss when you've been with him. | 1:05:13 | |
Oh, he was a funny, he spent his time | 1:05:17 | |
with some patients to do fun of solders | 1:05:21 | |
to make them problems by talking to them. | 1:05:26 | |
And he loves girls very much. | 1:05:29 | |
And when I entered first time mental clinic | 1:05:34 | |
he asked, "who's the detainee who entered this part | 1:05:36 | |
"because I heard someone else entered into the" | 1:05:40 | |
That was Delta block, | 1:05:43 | |
"enter the Delta block, he was Uzbek" | 1:05:44 | |
I said, yes, I am Uzbek. | 1:05:46 | |
We were yelling each other | 1:05:47 | |
you know, from the distance, maybe he was far away | 1:05:48 | |
30 meters or 40 meters from me. | 1:05:50 | |
And, "who, what's your name?" | 1:05:53 | |
I said, my name is Zakir, what's your name. | 1:05:55 | |
"My name is Abu Bakr." | 1:05:57 | |
And they knew to tear each other. | 1:05:59 | |
And then he asked site commander to get closer to me. | 1:06:06 | |
And he was moved from his place to right front of my cage. | 1:06:11 | |
Man | Wow. | 1:06:15 |
- | Yeah, and we spent two days | 1:06:16 |
and he was a little troublemaker, you know, | 1:06:18 | |
he never patients someone else | 1:06:20 | |
made unjust treatment to him. | 1:06:22 | |
His starts spitting on them vow to face. | 1:06:24 | |
He just call and said, "Hey, how are you?" | 1:06:27 | |
And he knew very well, | 1:06:29 | |
I think he knows very well, English, | 1:06:30 | |
now better than mine, I guess. | 1:06:33 | |
And he calls soldier and said, "Hey, how are you?" | 1:06:35 | |
With some funny things | 1:06:38 | |
because he wants to get (mumbles) | 1:06:41 | |
how, by spitting on face, | 1:06:42 | |
he said, "Hey, how are you?" | 1:06:44 | |
I am okay. | 1:06:45 | |
Because that was the way to get way around, you know, | 1:06:46 | |
and when he comes closer, he spits on his face | 1:06:49 | |
and he gets so happy. | 1:06:55 | |
When I ask, why you doing problems? | 1:06:57 | |
Now they come to pick you to get punished. | 1:06:59 | |
Now he said, no, you know (mumbles) | 1:07:01 | |
I don't anything | 1:07:07 | |
and he will be taken to other block, to get punished. | 1:07:08 | |
And he started making problems down there | 1:07:11 | |
then he will take him back | 1:07:14 | |
in other time to mental clinic. | 1:07:15 | |
And he used that method to get back | 1:07:18 | |
to mental clinic, to get a better treated. | 1:07:21 | |
Man | Why are you better treated metal clinic? | 1:07:25 |
- | Because they said, "don't make proud muster this detainee. | 1:07:27 |
"He makes, he may do some problems. | 1:07:31 | |
"He may hurt himself, don't do." | 1:07:34 | |
Because all those comes from commander, common staff | 1:07:37 | |
common groups, | 1:07:40 | |
and they said, "don't treat them." | 1:07:42 | |
And that they sticked a red sticker on the cage. | 1:07:44 | |
If you have a red sticker | 1:07:48 | |
no one comes and plays with, | 1:07:50 | |
no one comes and push to you, so hardly, | 1:07:52 | |
they do with another detainees, not with you | 1:07:56 | |
Man | Because? | 1:07:59 |
- | Because you had a red sticker on you cage. | 1:08:00 |
Man | Which means | 1:08:03 |
- | Which means you are a danger detainee | 1:08:04 |
and the danger mental patient, you know, | 1:08:06 | |
Man | Did you have a red sticker? | 1:08:09 |
- | Always. | 1:08:11 |
I had always a red sticker on my cage. | 1:08:12 | |
That helped me. | 1:08:17 | |
Man | I hadn't heard that before. | 1:08:19 |
Could you go back to the lawyers? | 1:08:23 | |
- | Mhmhh | 1:08:25 |
Man | So you got to meet a lawyer and | 1:08:26 |
was that helpful for you? | 1:08:31 | |
Did lawyers help you? | 1:08:33 | |
And also did the government ever pretend? | 1:08:34 | |
- | From CSRT you mean? | 1:08:37 |
Man | No, when you met Abu Bakr, (mumbles) | 1:08:38 |
- | Oh, yeah, I think it happened | 1:08:41 |
in the end of November, 2004. | 1:08:44 | |
When I asked for a lawyer through Abu Bakr. | 1:08:49 | |
And he said, he told his lawyer on my request | 1:08:52 | |
and they will respond as soon as they can. | 1:08:58 | |
And after three months I got the first letter | 1:09:02 | |
from my lawyer, from Chris, Christopher Moore | 1:09:05 | |
from clear (mumbles) | 1:09:09 | |
And that was the first letter from the lawyer. | 1:09:12 | |
Man | And when you met him, | 1:09:15 |
did they help you? | 1:09:16 | |
Do you think they help you get you out? | 1:09:17 | |
- | Not so much but they effected a little bit. | 1:09:21 |
Because now they could put some condition | 1:09:25 | |
from the state department. | 1:09:28 | |
Man | And did the government | 1:09:34 |
ever pretend they were your lawyer? | 1:09:36 | |
Did you ever have a governmen? | 1:09:38 | |
- | Yeah, they tried to make it somebody else | 1:09:39 |
front of him not to come to meet with me | 1:09:41 | |
to do some problems. | 1:09:43 | |
And they didn't get it exactly information about me. | 1:09:45 | |
Man | Did they ever tell you not to meet with your lawyer? | 1:09:51 |
- | Not openly. | 1:09:56 |
Man | Did they tell you you will be better? | 1:09:58 |
- | No, but Chris told me when he come to Yiguana camp | 1:10:00 |
when he met with me? | 1:10:06 | |
Thanks, he explained the situation | 1:10:08 | |
what was the problem. | 1:10:10 | |
When I asked, | 1:10:11 | |
okay, if you're my lawyer | 1:10:12 | |
why you didn't come so long | 1:10:14 | |
and ask me the situation was? | 1:10:17 | |
And he explained what situation is now. | 1:10:21 | |
Man | Before you met your lawyer any day | 1:10:26 |
on a day that you were to meet your lawyer | 1:10:28 | |
did the government or the military take you | 1:10:31 | |
to another place? | 1:10:33 | |
- | Yeah, to Eko camp. | 1:10:34 |
(murmurs) | 1:10:36 | |
Yes, and when we were in Delta camp | 1:10:37 | |
we were taken to Eko camp to meet our lawyers. | 1:10:39 | |
Man | Were you taking it the night before? | 1:10:42 |
- | Sometimes before three days. | 1:10:46 |
Sometimes two days. | 1:10:48 | |
Sometimes before night. | 1:10:49 | |
Man | Did anyone ever ask you to spy | 1:10:53 |
for the United States government? | 1:10:55 | |
- | No, because they were afraid of me. | 1:10:57 |
I said, I may work for you. | 1:11:01 | |
No one trust you. | 1:11:03 | |
Okay, that's enough. | 1:11:04 | |
Man | And they were afraid of you because, | 1:11:06 |
because you was too much trouble. | 1:11:10 | |
- | No, because, come to see | 1:11:11 |
I had not a friendly relation with the US | 1:11:17 | |
because they treated me unjust, you know | 1:11:20 | |
because they said, no, no, no. | 1:11:23 | |
When I was in camp two, I was taken | 1:11:25 | |
four palography tests. | 1:11:31 | |
How do we say for detector, palography test. | 1:11:35 | |
And they asked me that time, "what are you going | 1:11:38 | |
"to do when you leave from Guantanamo?" | 1:11:42 | |
I said, I am going to be your guest. | 1:11:45 | |
I go to your house. | 1:11:47 | |
Man | You said that? | 1:11:49 |
- | Yeah, I said for that's a interrogator | 1:11:50 |
and he was so scared, | 1:11:53 | |
said, "no, never come! | 1:11:55 | |
"I will come off with my rifle?" | 1:11:57 | |
I said, going to kill me? | 1:11:59 | |
No, I am protected. | 1:12:02 | |
He says, "I said, I'm not going to kill you. | 1:12:03 | |
"I am going to have just a friendship with you, | 1:12:06 | |
nothing more | 1:12:10 | |
"I may give it to you food." | 1:12:11 | |
Like I am homeless. | 1:12:12 | |
I said, no, | 1:12:13 | |
I'm trying to fix my life | 1:12:15 | |
my future, if I leave, you know, he was scared. | 1:12:17 | |
Man | Were you able to communicate with other detainees? | 1:12:24 |
Was it easy for you to communicate with other detainees? | 1:12:28 | |
- | What do you mean to communicate? | 1:12:32 |
Just to talk. | 1:12:33 | |
Man | Was it easy to talk? | 1:12:35 |
Were you in isolation a lot or not much? | 1:12:36 | |
You're mostly in the middle of clinic or in regular cells. | 1:12:39 | |
- | They had two section of mental clinic. | 1:12:41 |
One of them was a isolated, | 1:12:46 | |
second part was the regular cages. | 1:12:48 | |
I may say, not cells, cages. | 1:12:51 | |
And that cages were regular, | 1:12:55 | |
through the fan you may communicate with the others. | 1:12:57 | |
Man | You were in isolation also? | 1:12:59 |
- | Yeah, many times and a very long time. | 1:13:01 |
Man | How long was the longest time? | 1:13:05 |
- | Sometimes two, three days. | 1:13:07 |
Then I were taken back then started making some problems | 1:13:09 | |
not mental problems by soldiers. | 1:13:13 | |
And I got anger | 1:13:15 | |
Man | Right. | |
To Us and I started making problems. | 1:13:18 | |
Then after that, I wasn't taken | 1:13:20 | |
for investigation and they said, "please be quiet. | 1:13:25 | |
"We don't arrest you, | 1:13:28 | |
"do a doctor say, nothing more." | 1:13:31 | |
And then I stopped putting my condition from that doctor. | 1:13:34 | |
If so I was taken with no reason. | 1:13:37 | |
Now you should follow my instructions, not to follow yours. | 1:13:40 | |
"We cannot." | 1:13:45 | |
That was their answer. | 1:13:46 | |
Man | When you were in isolation, | 1:13:49 |
did that upset you or did you mind you were in isolation? | 1:13:51 | |
- | No, I was making | 1:13:54 |
when I was out, I started making problems when I was taken | 1:13:56 | |
into the isolation. | 1:14:00 | |
I was so quiete to keep out as soon as I could. | 1:14:02 | |
And they had no chance then pick me back. | 1:14:07 | |
Man | And so it was, was it easy for you in isolation | 1:14:11 |
or did you? | 1:14:15 | |
- | I prepared myself for isolation. | 1:14:17 |
Man | How did you prepare yourself? | 1:14:19 |
That's like, well to eat than making powers | 1:14:21 | |
and getting to isolation then getting sleep there. | 1:14:27 | |
That's all. | 1:14:31 | |
Man | When you found out | 1:14:43 |
that you were gonna leave Guantanamo, did you believe? | 1:14:44 | |
- | No, I didn't believe | 1:14:48 |
that I will leave in Guantanamo, you know. | 1:14:49 | |
Man | Who told you, and how did, | 1:14:52 |
can you describe the situation? | 1:14:54 | |
- | I think it was, it was the end of October | 1:14:54 |
when Chris, my lawyer came into Yiguana camp | 1:15:02 | |
and that, because I refuse for my lawyer. | 1:15:09 | |
I didn't trust them anymore. | 1:15:11 | |
I couldn't trust them | 1:15:14 | |
because if you working on my case, okay, what is the result? | 1:15:15 | |
Even she has already said | 1:15:19 | |
I am innocent, not the enemy combatant. | 1:15:21 | |
And they said, "you will go out." | 1:15:24 | |
Okay, if so, why you couldn't do anything? | 1:15:25 | |
And he's walking. | 1:15:31 | |
It was really difficult to fight | 1:15:32 | |
against the state department | 1:15:34 | |
because, and he tried to explain the reason | 1:15:36 | |
and I couldn't believe, | 1:15:41 | |
they said "okay, you want a lawyer since that time." | 1:15:42 | |
"yes you didn't do anything." | 1:15:46 | |
And I said, okay, I refuse | 1:15:48 | |
because we had a phone conversation that time. | 1:15:51 | |
I told over the phone, okay, I refused. | 1:15:55 | |
You may not come to make me | 1:15:57 | |
no, no, my Jonathan Blackman was his boss, | 1:15:59 | |
his chief. | 1:16:03 | |
"Jonathan Black wants to talk to you." | 1:16:04 | |
I don't want to talk to him anymore. | 1:16:06 | |
And I hang up the phone. | 1:16:08 | |
And after 20 days, approximately after 20 days, | 1:16:12 | |
he came and the one sold soldier informed me | 1:16:19 | |
that's my lawyer wants to meet with me. | 1:16:22 | |
I said, who? | 1:16:24 | |
I have no lawyers. | 1:16:25 | |
You said, no, you have a lawyer. | 1:16:27 | |
That's a private lawyer wants to talk to you. | 1:16:30 | |
And he said, ah, I receive a package from my lawyer. | 1:16:32 | |
Laughter even I didn't open it. | 1:16:37 | |
And the soldier informed me that my lawyer wants to come | 1:16:41 | |
toward me, to talk. | 1:16:44 | |
And I refuse. | 1:16:49 | |
I said, I don't want to meet. | 1:16:50 | |
He said just, he has a very good news for you. | 1:16:52 | |
And that was interesting. | 1:16:57 | |
I said, okay, I want to make a try and afternoon he came | 1:16:59 | |
and then I was waiting | 1:17:06 | |
for me under the shade | 1:17:08 | |
Calls to reach, calls to see. | 1:17:10 | |
And he enter, said, "just tell me Zakir, | 1:17:14 | |
if I am still on the case or not?" | 1:17:19 | |
I said, it depend of your news. | 1:17:22 | |
Yeah. I got the letter | 1:17:25 | |
from government within 30 days you'll be released. | 1:17:27 | |
If so, you're on the case, that was my joke. | 1:17:33 | |
And we met each other | 1:17:37 | |
and that I spent a whole day together and I prepared food. | 1:17:39 | |
He'll laughed at food | 1:17:46 | |
because I cook very good foods, natural foods | 1:17:48 | |
and he was happy. | 1:17:53 | |
Then I think after 20 days I left. | 1:17:55 | |
Man | And when did you find out you would come to Albania? | 1:18:01 |
When did you find out you were coming to Albania? | 1:18:03 | |
- | Oh, even in the end of summer, 2006, a delegation | 1:18:06 |
from ICRC informed me that they are preparing us | 1:18:14 | |
to send to Albania. | 1:18:19 | |
I refuse actually to come | 1:18:22 | |
to Albania, I said, I'm going to wait here. | 1:18:24 | |
Even Bumgarner | 1:18:27 | |
come to ask me to be agreed with them. | 1:18:28 | |
I said no, I never been agree with you. | 1:18:33 | |
I never go to Albania because I heard from ICRC. | 1:18:35 | |
That's a five detainee is in difficult situation | 1:18:39 | |
if they couldn't find jobs. | 1:18:43 | |
They couldn't do anything | 1:18:45 | |
even they had some problems, medical problems | 1:18:46 | |
and that's a very poor country, a poor country. | 1:18:50 | |
And that was the reason. | 1:18:55 | |
And I tried to find out because I had a police station | 1:18:57 | |
and soccer, and there was some information about Albania | 1:19:00 | |
because what (indistinct) had Albanian soccer team. | 1:19:06 | |
And I tried to find some information | 1:19:12 | |
because we had no rights to watch TV. | 1:19:13 | |
I mean a regular teller station. | 1:19:17 | |
Though we had a DVD PlayStation TV? | 1:19:20 | |
We were isolated that time | 1:19:26 | |
and I tried to find some, | 1:19:28 | |
then I refused. | 1:19:29 | |
I was forced to come to Albania, that's all. | 1:19:30 | |
But I refused then | 1:19:35 | |
Bamgarner come to say, "okay, you cannot stay here | 1:19:36 | |
if you're innocent." | 1:19:38 | |
Okay, you guys brought me here. | 1:19:39 | |
You should have find some place | 1:19:41 | |
which I could fix my future. | 1:19:44 | |
Could I start my life? | 1:19:46 | |
"Yes." | 1:19:47 | |
That's old, that's my condition. | 1:19:48 | |
I am not going to leave to Albania. | 1:19:50 | |
No, you must, must, must. | 1:19:53 | |
Yeah, I was forced. | 1:19:55 | |
Man | And when you were sent here | 1:19:57 |
did you know any of the weagers who were here? | 1:19:59 | |
You knew Abu Bakr. | 1:20:02 | |
Did you know anyone else? | 1:20:03 | |
- | We were together in camp | 1:20:04 |
in Yiguana camp | 1:20:07 | |
Even they, you know | 1:20:08 | |
they select us together, all the NEC, enemy combatants. | 1:20:10 | |
Man | So you had a community when you came here? | 1:20:16 |
- | Yes, we had, we had | 1:20:19 |
even we saw each other before CSRT. | 1:20:20 | |
Just we were talking from distance, | 1:20:26 | |
we're greeting each other. | 1:20:30 | |
Man | I want to go back to the communication. | 1:20:32 |
Did you ever, were you able to send notes? | 1:20:33 | |
Or any other ways to communicate | 1:20:37 | |
besides just screaming over to somebody? | 1:20:39 | |
- | No, no, no, no, nothing. | 1:20:41 |
Oh, I may send picture because, not notes. | 1:20:43 | |
Man | You could send pictures? | 1:20:48 |
- | I'd draw very well. | 1:20:51 |
Man | You would draw (mumbles) | 1:20:53 |
- | Yeah, I did. | 1:20:54 |
And that picture was taking to my friend from Kazakhstan. | 1:20:55 | |
Man | So some guard took your picture and gave it to him? | 1:21:04 |
- | Yeah, but that was just friendly. | 1:21:07 |
If they knew they would punished him. | 1:21:11 | |
I was prohibited. | 1:21:14 | |
Man | So some guards were friendly to you? | 1:21:15 |
- | Yeah, but they are afraid of getting punished. | 1:21:17 |
You know | 1:21:20 | |
even when I was in Yiguana camp, one Spanish soldier come | 1:21:22 | |
but he was in good relation with me. | 1:21:27 | |
Man | A Spanish soldier? | 1:21:31 |
- | Yeah, he was (mumbles) | 1:21:32 |
His nationality was Spanish. | 1:21:34 | |
And he explained | 1:21:36 | |
in many things what's going on in Guantanamo. | 1:21:38 | |
And he said, "I know who you are. | 1:21:43 | |
"So because I am telling you," and he was punished | 1:21:45 | |
because he was treated us. | 1:21:49 | |
Man | Do you know how he was punished? | 1:21:51 |
- | He was taken from that camp | 1:21:52 |
because they will be sent another | 1:21:54 | |
camp when detainee makes more troubles. | 1:21:57 | |
Man | And so do you feel that some of the guards were nice | 1:22:01 |
some of of the guards were just nice? | 1:22:06 | |
- | Just a little bit, yeah, | 1:22:07 |
and I had a guard in there. | 1:22:08 | |
I think Roshan knows about what my guard, | 1:22:11 | |
than about my flower garden, | 1:22:12 | |
and yeah, I plant (mumbles) | 1:22:15 | |
Man | Could you tell how to plant your flower garden? | 1:22:18 |
- | And one guy from Saudi Arabi, | 1:22:20 |
his name was Siddiq. | 1:22:23 | |
She knows him. | 1:22:25 | |
And we decided to make a garden together. | 1:22:27 | |
And because, on Fridays we had that extra food | 1:22:31 | |
from Bazaar, extra food. | 1:22:36 | |
They brought from out extra than regular food. | 1:22:38 | |
And we get at least what we need. | 1:22:42 | |
For example, ice cream, | 1:22:45 | |
watermelon, melon, cantaloupe, (mumbles) | 1:22:47 | |
And I asked for watermelon | 1:22:53 | |
and I pick the seeds from watermelon. | 1:22:55 | |
I said, Siddiq, what do you think? | 1:22:57 | |
Can we be plant watermelon? | 1:23:00 | |
Just tried because climate was very good. | 1:23:02 | |
And I decided to try. | 1:23:04 | |
Man | which campus is this? | 1:23:09 |
- | It was Yiguana, camp Yiguana. | 1:23:10 |
We had a little bit more freedom than other camp. | 1:23:13 | |
Man | The guards like it? | 1:23:17 |
- | Yeah, when I asked the commander | 1:23:18 |
of the camp, he said, "we cannot give it to you, | 1:23:19 | |
"and there are special permission | 1:23:22 | |
from Washington from pentagon, from somewhere." | 1:23:24 | |
And they said, "okay, but give them plastic | 1:23:27 | |
you know, (indistinct) other things, plastic, not metallic. | 1:23:30 | |
And I said, okay, but when they give | 1:23:35 | |
I should give it back before evening | 1:23:38 | |
even those plastic instruments | 1:23:41 | |
and I asked for instruments and we grow. | 1:23:42 | |
And that we had more than 28 watermelons, like this size. | 1:23:46 | |
Yeah, and what happened, | 1:23:50 | |
second month, one of commander of that scamp | 1:23:54 | |
he was staff soldier. | 1:23:59 | |
Yeah, staff soldier. | 1:24:01 | |
And he entered with the machine | 1:24:04 | |
who works with art, and he entered into | 1:24:06 | |
and that he was taking by the video camera, | 1:24:09 | |
but interviewed, and he explained, | 1:24:11 | |
"we're working for detainees we're growing watermelons." | 1:24:13 | |
He was on the pictures of newspapers. | 1:24:17 | |
And I saw the picture that black surgeon was working in. | 1:24:21 | |
They announced us, they're working for detainees, | 1:24:24 | |
They're growing watermelon, | 1:24:27 | |
they are growing flowers for detainees. | 1:24:28 | |
That was my job, not him. | 1:24:31 | |
Oh, it was terrible. | 1:24:34 | |
And I need to tell my lawyer and I talk that time. | 1:24:36 | |
I try to make a phone conversation with the Chris. | 1:24:40 | |
And I said, okay, I want to talk (mumbles) | 1:24:45 | |
my kitchen last fall. | 1:24:46 | |
And they said, "what are you doing? | 1:24:50 | |
"What kind of, Zkir that's military newspaper. | 1:24:52 | |
"We cannot do anything." | 1:24:55 | |
They made whatever they want. | 1:24:56 | |
You know, they announced | 1:24:59 | |
that they are growing for us watermelon. | 1:25:00 | |
They're making flower garden. | 1:25:02 | |
Man | Did you ever eat any of your watermelons? | 1:25:05 |
- | Oh, most of them, more than 28, | 1:25:07 |
I said, because I count them and I grow (indistinct) | 1:25:09 | |
It was very sweet. | 1:25:13 | |
Man | Awesome? | 1:25:15 |
- | Yeah. | |
Man | And you got to eat them too? | 1:25:16 |
- | Yes, sure. | 1:25:18 |
Man | Could you share them with the other? | 1:25:18 |
- | Yeah, because they were afraid because, | 1:25:20 |
with other detainees yes, sure, | 1:25:22 | |
because that time we left only four, we were four. | 1:25:24 | |
And even I fed soldiers. | 1:25:28 | |
They were afraid | 1:25:31 | |
because they were prohibited to any food offers | 1:25:32 | |
because they're afraid of get poisoned from us. | 1:25:34 | |
We were terrorists so we could do anything. | 1:25:38 | |
Man | So for how many years | 1:25:44 |
were you able to grow the watermelons? | 1:25:45 | |
- | That was the beginning of the summer, 2006. | 1:25:50 |
Man | Before you left? | 1:25:55 |
- | Yeah, before I left and I made the try | 1:25:56 |
but it gave results, | 1:25:59 | |
we had more than 20, callops, not so big | 1:26:03 | |
with which we had from Bazar, but it was very sweet. | 1:26:07 | |
Man | And did everyone know, did everyone know about that? | 1:26:13 |
- | About? | 1:26:17 |
Man | About what you were growing? | 1:26:18 |
Did other detainees ever know? | 1:26:19 | |
- | Detainees, yeah | 1:26:21 |
When I was the one, | 1:26:22 | |
when I went to hospital | 1:26:26 | |
and I complain about my teeth problems | 1:26:28 | |
and I saw there Abubakar, Uzbek not this one | 1:26:30 | |
other who is ready to release to Ireland. | 1:26:35 | |
And I explained him all situation. | 1:26:39 | |
He said, "yeah, I heard about your garden" (mumbles) | 1:26:41 | |
I said, that was excellent. | 1:26:44 | |
And he move on other detainees about my garden. | 1:26:46 | |
Man | Do you grow a garden here in Albania? | 1:26:51 |
- | No, I have more time and no area. | 1:26:53 |
Oh I could, but there is no place and no time. | 1:26:56 | |
Man | So what is your attitude about Guantanamo | 1:27:03 |
and about America looking back, what is your attitude | 1:27:06 | |
about the country and the people? | 1:27:10 | |
Do you have any thoughts about the people since you | 1:27:13 | |
the different people you met and how America treated you? | 1:27:18 | |
Do you have any thoughts about that today? | 1:27:22 | |
- | You know, I cannot say all American people | 1:27:25 |
are bad because I had, and I have good friends from America | 1:27:30 | |
and I saw many of them who were treated very badly with me | 1:27:37 | |
you know, even I cannot say about the Uzbek | 1:27:43 | |
the same things (mumbles) | 1:27:45 | |
because you know, country and all | 1:27:46 | |
the nation has its good side and the bad side. | 1:27:50 | |
And even they have now some of them like on my friends | 1:27:54 | |
not on like lawyers | 1:28:00 | |
even others still communicating with me as a friend | 1:28:02 | |
but they are my friend. | 1:28:09 | |
And one of them were very in bad situation. | 1:28:10 | |
That's America has done with us. | 1:28:15 | |
So on just treatment. | 1:28:18 | |
And even they were crying friend of us, | 1:28:19 | |
that their country has done something bad | 1:28:23 | |
which may give us some thoughts | 1:28:27 | |
really bad thoughts about US and both people from US. | 1:28:30 | |
Then I explained to them that this is, | 1:28:32 | |
that is not their fault. | 1:28:38 | |
If someone else has done something wrong | 1:28:42 | |
we cannot blame everyone. | 1:28:45 | |
Man | Did you say you have some friends | 1:28:49 |
from the prison that you're still in touch with? | 1:28:51 | |
- | Except this people? | 1:28:54 |
Man | I mean, since you left Guantanamo, | 1:28:56 |
are you still friendly with some of the people, | 1:28:58 | |
you met in Guantanamo? | 1:29:01 | |
- | Do you mean from soldiers? | 1:29:03 |
Man | No, with soldiers or any. | 1:29:04 |
- | No, we couldn't exchange information. | 1:29:06 |
Man | What about with other detainees? | 1:29:10 |
Are you in touch with them? | 1:29:13 | |
- | Yeah, I spoke twice with the person from Kazakhstan | 1:29:15 |
and his father explained me | 1:29:21 | |
because it was very dangerous that time, because you know | 1:29:23 | |
international calls will be monitored through satellite | 1:29:26 | |
or something like that. | 1:29:31 | |
Even I was warned that my all conversation | 1:29:32 | |
will be recorded monitored, and I never say anything. | 1:29:35 | |
And I stopped trying to get connected then. | 1:29:40 | |
I said, okay. | 1:29:43 | |
But I had a conversation after that. | 1:29:46 | |
Man | How has one timeout changed your life? | 1:29:52 |
Is there anything positive that came from it? | 1:29:54 | |
- | Positive, I cannot say anything positive | 1:29:57 |
about my life which I spent in Guantanamo, | 1:29:59 | |
everything negative. | 1:30:04 | |
Man | Could it have changed your life in a positive way? | 1:30:05 |
- | Positive, no, | 1:30:07 |
I cannot say any words of positive. | 1:30:08 | |
Man | Could you just say what | 1:30:11 |
it changed your life negatively? | 1:30:12 | |
- | Yes, life negative, because I lost trust in people. | 1:30:13 |
That's all. | 1:30:20 | |
Man | You lost trust | 1:30:21 |
in people because, the way Americans treated you? | 1:30:23 | |
The lawyers treated you? | 1:30:26 | |
- | Yes, yes, not lawyers | 1:30:26 |
because US government treated me unjustly, you know | 1:30:32 | |
Man | And before that you always believed | 1:30:36 |
in people, you always felt people did the right thing? | 1:30:39 | |
- | Yes I did. | 1:30:42 |
And now I lost | 1:30:43 | |
because you know, those medicine | 1:30:47 | |
even that time, didn't give any effect, | 1:30:49 | |
now they're giving effect, very bad effect | 1:30:52 | |
those mental pills | 1:30:55 | |
mental medication, you know. | 1:30:57 | |
Man | How are they giving you? | 1:31:00 |
- | Because now my brain function is not like before | 1:31:02 |
even I may feel it. | 1:31:10 | |
I feel it. | 1:31:11 | |
Man | Can you describe what the difference is? | 1:31:13 |
- | Sometimes, you know (mumbles) | 1:31:17 |
I could remember when I was | 1:31:22 | |
in a while, when I start thinking on something | 1:31:25 | |
that look like in dream, you know, | 1:31:33 | |
because those medicine makes that time. | 1:31:35 | |
Me, like in dream, as you are looking | 1:31:37 | |
at people, but even makes you so lazy | 1:31:40 | |
even you don't want think when you wear something | 1:31:45 | |
like in dream, but you get tired of it. | 1:31:50 | |
And even I am getting back | 1:31:53 | |
to that effect, which medicine I was given in that time. | 1:31:55 | |
It's a very bad effect | 1:32:00 | |
because I thought, | 1:32:02 | |
I think less the effect of those medicines. | 1:32:03 | |
Even the effects now to my study. | 1:32:06 | |
Man | When you first came to Albania | 1:32:11 |
were those medicines affecting you? | 1:32:13 | |
- | No, I cut out those medicine, | 1:32:15 |
when I left to Yiguana camp. | 1:32:17 | |
I said, I don't take this medicine anymore | 1:32:20 | |
because, and they said, "okay, you can not stop it." | 1:32:24 | |
They said, "then you should make those dose | 1:32:27 | |
"a little bit lower, and lower" | 1:32:31 | |
And now you miss that, | 1:32:33 | |
I said no, I am compared to healthy people | 1:32:34 | |
like you storing like that, I said, don't trash it. | 1:32:37 | |
Man | So how long did you take medicine | 1:32:41 |
when in Guantanamo? | 1:32:43 | |
- | Longer than three years. | 1:32:46 |
Man | Three years you took medication? | 1:32:48 |
- | Yes. | 1:32:49 |
Woman | Do you know what it was? | 1:32:50 |
- | No, no one explained what kind of. | 1:32:51 |
Man | And when did it stop? | 1:32:54 |
What year did it stop? | 1:32:55 | |
- | When I stopped those medicine, | 1:32:58 |
they picked me once, twice | 1:33:00 | |
and doctor came said, if you stop taking medicines | 1:33:02 | |
we will force you make injection. | 1:33:06 | |
Man | Did they continue then with injections? | 1:33:09 |
- | Yeah, and they said, "if you stop taking this medicine | 1:33:11 |
"we'll force make an injection." | 1:33:16 | |
Man | And so did you get injections throughout? | 1:33:18 |
- | No, I said, if so I'll take them. | 1:33:20 |
Then that time, doctor explained | 1:33:25 | |
you cannot stop it striking. | 1:33:28 | |
Yes, make a lower, lower, lower. | 1:33:31 | |
And I didn't complain because | 1:33:34 | |
after CSRT stop making any problems | 1:33:35 | |
because I was promised to leave to camp four. | 1:33:40 | |
And they said, | 1:33:44 | |
"if so, you should get yourself better than now. | 1:33:45 | |
"You are in trouble because you had | 1:33:48 | |
"bad back behind you | 1:33:50 | |
"because you pass on mental steps that you should prove it. | 1:33:53 | |
"You may go to camp four." | 1:33:58 | |
I said, I may start giving myself quite right now. | 1:34:03 | |
I meet whatever you want. | 1:34:08 | |
And my interrogator said, "if you keep yourself quiet, | 1:34:14 | |
"you will be there after two months." | 1:34:19 | |
He promised me | 1:34:22 | |
and what kind of a way I used to leave to camp four. | 1:34:24 | |
And his name was, I forgot his name. | 1:34:29 | |
And he told me, "I need information about everything. | 1:34:35 | |
"If you need, you may read in my files, in my case." | 1:34:38 | |
He said, "no other info. | 1:34:42 | |
"You need other information? | 1:34:43 | |
"Let me exchange." | 1:34:44 | |
Okay, I'll give you all the information | 1:34:45 | |
whatever you want, but I won't go to camp four. | 1:34:47 | |
"Have you been ever?" | 1:34:50 | |
Never, okay. | 1:34:51 | |
Okay, when I come from camp four, I answer your question. | 1:34:52 | |
What kind of, doesn't matter. | 1:34:57 | |
Okay, okay. | 1:34:58 | |
Then I left to camp four then come back. | 1:35:01 | |
I started repeating. | 1:35:03 | |
No, no, no. | 1:35:04 | |
Okay, what do you want, do you want, (mumbles) | 1:35:05 | |
You want to hear from me? | 1:35:07 | |
That's I am terrorists. | 1:35:10 | |
I am like that. | 1:35:11 | |
I am like that and I explain. | 1:35:12 | |
And he was so anger. | 1:35:14 | |
I said, okay, we will send those information | 1:35:16 | |
to state department and we'll wait for response. | 1:35:19 | |
Man | I'm sorry, are you saying that sometimes | 1:35:25 |
you gave false information just to please them? | 1:35:27 | |
Is that what you're saying? | 1:35:30 | |
- | No, he told me he wants all the information | 1:35:31 |
which you have given before | 1:35:36 | |
to repeat or he said, "I want to ask some questions." | 1:35:38 | |
What kind of question? | 1:35:41 | |
I have given all answer to your question. | 1:35:43 | |
You may check my case, my files, whatever you want. | 1:35:44 | |
No, I need the new something. | 1:35:48 | |
Okay, if you need the new something, | 1:35:49 | |
under condition, my exchanging. | 1:35:52 | |
How? | 1:35:55 | |
For next investigation or interrogation, | 1:35:57 | |
I will come from camp four. | 1:36:00 | |
Oh, how have you even ever been there? | 1:36:02 | |
Never, okay | 1:36:05 | |
Okay, and I was taken from count four after two weeks. | 1:36:06 | |
And he was so happy to just withdraw from phase | 1:36:10 | |
you know, in the, you see, | 1:36:13 | |
I said what, I sent you there. | 1:36:15 | |
Okay, okay, what do you need now? | 1:36:17 | |
And he has given the same questions. | 1:36:20 | |
He was taking the answer, the same. | 1:36:23 | |
He was so angry at me. | 1:36:26 | |
He said, "you're giving me" | 1:36:28 | |
okay, what did you expect? | 1:36:29 | |
You expect, no, I was wrong. | 1:36:33 | |
I was trained in some special camp. | 1:36:35 | |
I pass some special training, like Alqaeda? | 1:36:38 | |
I never say that because I didn't do anything. | 1:36:41 | |
He was anger. | 1:36:45 | |
You get what you want. | 1:36:47 | |
Man | So can you just explain to me again | 1:36:51 |
about the medication you were on pills | 1:36:54 | |
for three years? | 1:36:56 | |
- | Different because we were like a rabbit under experiment. | 1:36:58 |
We have some, you have the same proverb. | 1:37:03 | |
We have a proverb, like a rabbit under experiment. | 1:37:07 | |
Man | Right, a rat. | 1:37:11 |
- | Yeah, a rat under experience. | 1:37:12 |
And you know, when the doctor gives | 1:37:15 | |
to you this medicine, they come to ask you how | 1:37:18 | |
what kind of effect he has given to you? | 1:37:21 | |
He takes notes, everything, everything. | 1:37:23 | |
I never gave the right information. | 1:37:24 | |
Then I didn't want to help that doctor | 1:37:28 | |
to make more experiments about that in medicine. | 1:37:31 | |
I gave false information, everything | 1:37:34 | |
they got lost on some way. | 1:37:36 | |
Man | And then when you stop taking the medication, | 1:37:38 |
then they gave you shots for a while after that, | 1:37:42 | |
or they didn't? | 1:37:46 | |
- | Actually some of them, were, no. | 1:37:46 |
When I refuse taking those medicine, | 1:37:49 | |
they made it, they called doctor, | 1:37:53 | |
psychologist to come to make appointment. | 1:37:55 | |
And he explained me if I strictly stop this medicine | 1:37:58 | |
it may could give me bad effect. | 1:38:04 | |
Man | Right. | 1:38:07 |
- | Then, they will be | 1:38:07 |
forced me to take, to make an injection. | 1:38:09 | |
Man | Right. | 1:38:13 |
- | Which they were making to another detainees | 1:38:14 |
from that injection, they were losing their mind | 1:38:17 | |
because it was very bad injection. | 1:38:21 | |
I don't know what kind of. | 1:38:22 | |
Man | Right. | 1:38:24 |
I saw many detainees | 1:38:25 | |
who has lost their mind front of me. | 1:38:28 | |
Man | So you continued. | 1:38:32 |
I just want to make sure it's good. | 1:38:33 | |
You continue winding it down and then you stop. | 1:38:36 | |
- | Yes. | 1:38:38 |
Man | And then the effects, came back later on. | 1:38:40 |
- | Yeah, even I feel about the effect of those medicines. | 1:38:43 |
Man | Okay, is there something else that | 1:38:48 |
that I didn't ask you, | 1:38:51 | |
that maybe you want to talk about? | 1:38:53 | |
Or maybe what is say? | 1:38:55 | |
- | You know, what is offend me, when I asked for the justice | 1:38:57 |
from commanders, not just from soldiers, from someone else. | 1:39:04 | |
they help all the unjust treatment never goes out | 1:39:10 | |
from Guantanamo, unjust treatment to people. | 1:39:14 | |
Even I think in America, even very bad and very, | 1:39:18 | |
the high terrorists had their own rights to keep silent | 1:39:25 | |
at least, but never, they use that right to Guantanamo. | 1:39:29 | |
But why? | 1:39:35 | |
Because that is not American area, not American land. | 1:39:37 | |
Someone else made me explanation, when I asked | 1:39:43 | |
for that, what they, I mean, they is a military people. | 1:39:45 | |
They didn't follow the law. | 1:39:52 | |
They didn't follow the rule. | 1:39:54 | |
If so, why they ask people to follow? | 1:39:56 | |
Even I was arguing with the special agent from CIA | 1:39:59 | |
why they have killed so many innocent people in Afghanistan. | 1:40:03 | |
That is military situation, you know, it's easy. | 1:40:08 | |
They killed many, many innocent people | 1:40:13 | |
with no reason, because we had information. | 1:40:15 | |
They were group of Taliban. | 1:40:18 | |
And we destroyed that village, more than 2000 people | 1:40:19 | |
on that time. | 1:40:25 | |
And when I argued, | 1:40:26 | |
and he was wondering how I did get that information | 1:40:28 | |
about that village, but I didn't say anything. | 1:40:33 | |
And I said, if you say, | 1:40:36 | |
when I ask why they're treating me very badly here. | 1:40:37 | |
And you know, we're now separating | 1:40:42 | |
and the clarifying who is who and the, you are between them. | 1:40:44 | |
We're forced to make the same treatment to you. | 1:40:50 | |
And we know, but you should be open with us. | 1:40:54 | |
And I explained, if some of them terrorist, | 1:40:57 | |
aren't you terrorist? | 1:41:01 | |
What do you mean, I am a terrorist? | 1:41:02 | |
I said, your government never get innocent people? | 1:41:05 | |
What do you meant? | 1:41:08 | |
And I explained the situation. | 1:41:09 | |
And you know, he was wondering how I got this information. | 1:41:11 | |
I said, you never killed innocent people? | 1:41:15 | |
And my government never kills. | 1:41:19 | |
And I explained the situation. | 1:41:21 | |
He couldn't make any explanation. | 1:41:23 | |
And I said, okay, and a terrorist, why you don't treat them | 1:41:25 | |
as a terrorist, even terrorist has their right. | 1:41:31 | |
Yes, even terrorist has it's rights. | 1:41:35 | |
Okay, so I can not answer. | 1:41:38 | |
Even that special agent from CIA | 1:41:42 | |
couldn't answer my question. | 1:41:44 | |
Man | How did you know he was a CIA agent? | 1:41:46 |
- | He showed me, you know | 1:41:48 |
like a card he has | 1:41:52 | |
and two persons were introduced themselves | 1:41:55 | |
during of capture in Guantanamo. | 1:42:00 | |
Two of them, one of them, he was one of them. | 1:42:04 | |
I don't remember. | 1:42:08 | |
He showed me his ID. | 1:42:09 | |
And you know, last time even I got tired answering | 1:42:15 | |
if they don't introduce themselves | 1:42:21 | |
because (mumbles) | 1:42:23 | |
covered by tape, | 1:42:24 | |
I said, okay, introduce yourself. | 1:42:26 | |
Even the president of CSRT hide his name. | 1:42:28 | |
I said, if you saw why you don't open? | 1:42:34 | |
Why you don't introduce yourself? | 1:42:37 | |
If you wants to make justice to be open, just be open. | 1:42:39 | |
Oh, this is military Bay. | 1:42:45 | |
We cannot be open. | 1:42:49 | |
You say you never afraid of making rule. | 1:42:51 | |
Okay, if you don't rule, | 1:42:53 | |
why you're afraid of me, why you're scared of me? | 1:42:54 | |
Why you covered your name? | 1:42:58 | |
That's the rule, he covered his rank. | 1:43:01 | |
He covered his name, everything. | 1:43:03 | |
And the one of those three got upset of it. | 1:43:05 | |
He said, "yes, (indistinct) you're right, | 1:43:10 | |
we treated some of them very badly and unjustly. | 1:43:13 | |
And he was angry at his government, | 1:43:18 | |
as his governmental was treated very badly with some people. | 1:43:21 | |
And he said, and that, | 1:43:24 | |
that affect him very badly. | 1:43:26 | |
Even I ask if you so follow the justice | 1:43:28 | |
why you don't be open some | 1:43:31 | |
okay, who you are? | 1:43:32 | |
He said, "I cannot introduce myself." | 1:43:34 | |
That's the military rule. | 1:43:37 | |
Man | What would you like from America today? | 1:43:39 |
- | Sorry? | 1:43:43 |
Man | Would you like America to do anything | 1:43:44 |
today for you or for the people in Guantanamo? | 1:43:46 | |
- | To do, okay. | 1:43:49 |
Last the general problems we were sent to Albania, | 1:43:52 | |
but US government made it on purpose, | 1:43:57 | |
not to get better out of life | 1:44:01 | |
because if we get better and we | 1:44:03 | |
may ask for rights and we may ask for | 1:44:05 | |
just unjust treatment we have seen. | 1:44:09 | |
And if so, US government destroyed my past and my future | 1:44:13 | |
I may say my future and my health. | 1:44:19 | |
Why he was government doesn't take that responsibility | 1:44:23 | |
to fix at least my future. | 1:44:26 | |
Not to just send to some country | 1:44:29 | |
where that person can get worse, why | 1:44:32 | |
Woman | What country would you like to go, | 1:44:38 |
where would you like to go? | 1:44:39 | |
- | Except Albania, everywhere. | 1:44:42 |
Man | Would you come to America, if they took you? | 1:44:50 |
- | Like to be. | 1:44:53 |
Man | Well, do you have anything else, otherwise? | 1:44:56 |
- | If you dodn't have any questions, anyone. | 1:45:00 |
Man | Well, thank you very much. | 1:45:06 |
- | You're welcome, anytime. | 1:45:08 |
Man | And it was a pleasure speaking to you in English. | 1:45:09 |
(murmurs) | 1:45:12 | |
Woman | There's one question. | 1:45:13 |
- | Please. | 1:45:15 |
Man | Sure. | |
- | I wanna understand, | 1:45:15 |
it seems that the, on the blocks people they organized, | 1:45:17 | |
like in terms of people (mumbles) | 1:45:22 | |
- | Which camp you're talking about? | 1:45:24 |
Because they are completely different system, | 1:45:26 | |
completely different situation, condition, | 1:45:28 | |
one, two, three, four, five, six. | 1:45:31 | |
Woman | Okay, what I'm trying to understand | 1:45:34 |
like where the certain people who took, | 1:45:36 | |
like helped other people learn languages | 1:45:38 | |
or helped organize the group | 1:45:40 | |
or organize hunger strikes, | 1:45:42 | |
or how did it work in terms of (mumbles) | 1:45:44 | |
- | It was just from the beginning of detention, | 1:45:46 |
they tried to help Afghan people to learn English | 1:45:48 | |
learn (mumbles) | 1:45:53 | |
Woman | Who tried to help? | 1:45:55 |
- | I don't know what kind of people | 1:45:56 |
when I ask to learn English, they resist, you know why? | 1:45:57 | |
Because if I understood English, | 1:46:02 | |
I'm understand what they were reporting between them | 1:46:06 | |
and wrong information, because they didn't want | 1:46:10 | |
what was the conversation was between them. | 1:46:13 | |
Woman | So you learned Arabic just by listening | 1:46:16 |
or did someone help you? | 1:46:18 | |
- | Just by listening, | 1:46:18 |
Farsi, Arabic, just by listening | 1:46:20 | |
(murmurs) | 1:46:21 | |
Man | Okay, thank you so much. | 1:46:31 |
- | You're welcome. | 1:46:33 |
Woman | Thank you. | |
(murmurs) | 1:46:33 |
Item Info
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