Luvenia Joyner interview recording, 1993 August 05

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Chris Stewart	Tell me your name and your address so that I can get a recording level on the tape recording.	0:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, I'm living here.	0:07
Chris Stewart	What's this address?	0:09
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	502—	0:11
Chris Stewart	Yeah. And what's your full name?	0:12
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Luvenia Joyner.	0:14
Chris Stewart	Okay. Ma'am, I'd like to ask you by start by asking you if you've always lived here in James City.	0:15
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, I moved out and come back.	0:24
Chris Stewart	You did?	0:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I stayed in New York a long time.	0:27
Chris Stewart	Oh, that's right.	0:31
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	And then I come back.	0:31
Chris Stewart	Were you born in James City then?	0:33
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	0:35
Chris Stewart	What part? What area?	0:36
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	In Graysville?	0:39
Chris Stewart	In Grayson?	0:39
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Graysville, that's what it was called. It's called Graysville.	0:39
Chris Stewart	Graysville.	0:39
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	See when you cross the road there, it's Graysville.	0:45
Chris Stewart	And there's a Brownsville.	0:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	This is Brownsville.	0:48
Chris Stewart	How come the neighborhoods got those names?	0:54
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know. It was before I come along. That's what I don't know. See, it used to be James City up that way. Now they got UC trailers running through underneath it, that was James City. Well, they put all the Colored people out of there. That part then, and they had to move over here. So they moved all the churches and everything over here. So that's how we got there.	0:55
Chris Stewart	Do you remember when it moved?	1:23
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	1:25
Chris Stewart	Was that before your time?	1:26
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I slightly remember, but not enough to know anything.	1:28
Chris Stewart	Do you remember the house that you grew up in?	1:32
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	1:36
Chris Stewart	What it looked like?	1:37
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Nothing but just, I knew a house put together.	1:38
Chris Stewart	How many rooms did it have?	1:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I think four or five.	1:44
Chris Stewart	Did it have electricity?	1:49
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, when I grew up they had nothing but lamps.	1:51
Chris Stewart	Lamps. How many kids were there in your family?	1:55
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I think it was 10 or 12 of us.	2:00
Chris Stewart	So how'd you fit all those kids in that house?	2:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, they live with one. Yeah, two or three of us slept in one bed, two or three in the other. And then we had a couch. Look, sit down.	2:04
Chris Stewart	And some people slept on the couch?	2:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	2:25
Chris Stewart	Did you know your grandparents?	2:27
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	2:30
Chris Stewart	You did? Did they live nearby?	2:31
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	One lived on the corner of Graysville there. They lived around, all us lived around in sections, right in the same section.	2:36
Chris Stewart	All your family did?	2:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	2:47
Chris Stewart	Did you visit your grandparents?	2:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	2:50
Chris Stewart	What would you do when you visited them?	2:51
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Eat, do something, then they'd beat me and I'd go back home. My grandparents was very good.	2:55
Chris Stewart	Yeah?	3:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	We had good grandparents.	3:03
Chris Stewart	Yeah. How come? What was so good about them?	3:05
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They were small. I was small I mean, and they would always bring us when they go town shopping, bring us back a bag of candy and stuff like that. And they was good to them. And then they'd go get a bag of apples and a lot of them were speckled, but they would buy them so they could cut it off and feed us all.	3:07
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	3:35
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Because my mother had 10 children.	3:38
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Did your grandparents ever tell you any stories about when they were growing up?	3:40
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. How they worked, that's all.	3:46
Chris Stewart	What would they tell you?	3:49
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	How they worked in the field and how they walked and pick berries. They used to go around, the berries used to go on the ground. They used to call them blackberries or something, and they'd walk around and pick berries.	3:54
Chris Stewart	Would they sell them or would they?	4:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. [Indistinct 00:04:11] and sell them. Well, they made a living somewhere in the way down there for the factories and men did, and the women worked in the fields. It didn't bother them. They didn't seem to worry much as we were in now.	4:08
Chris Stewart	Your grandparents? Yeah. How come they didn't worry, do you think?	4:29
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, they figured that was, maybe that was the way they came up. I think that was the way they came up. They worked, and the parents had to work to take care of. Now I didn't know they parents.	4:35
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	4:54
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	But I know them.	4:55
Chris Stewart	Do you remember what they looked like?	4:57
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	4:59
Chris Stewart	What they looked like.	5:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They was nice people. Nice looking. And it was real nice.	5:01
Chris Stewart	Yeah? What kind of work did your father do?	5:10
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My father, I told you over there, to the fertilizer factory.	5:14
Chris Stewart	Worked at the fertilizer factory?	5:16
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	5:16
Chris Stewart	Did he ever talk to any of his kids about his work or?	5:19
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, he wasn't that tight.	5:23
Chris Stewart	What time would he leave in the morning?	5:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Around five or six o'clock.	5:28
Chris Stewart	And then when would he be back?	5:30
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Around four or five. You didn't have lunch time off. They all worked, didn't nobody play.	5:31
Chris Stewart	So that you said that that was mainly where men worked down at the fertilizer factory?	5:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	5:47
Chris Stewart	Did you have any brothers that worked down there?	5:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't remember. I don't remember. But I know my father did.	5:51
Chris Stewart	You said you worked out in the field though, and the women worked out in the field.	6:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	6:03
Chris Stewart	You lived in James City, right? Where would you go to work?	6:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Down the road.	6:12
Chris Stewart	Do you remember who you were working for?	6:15
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh my God, no. There's so many farmers down there.	6:17
Chris Stewart	Okay, so it was a lot of different people then.	6:21
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. I go wait for you today. If we finish your crop today, then we go to another one. Can't remember. Mr. White was one. I know he was, don't ask me his first name, because all I know is White.	6:24
Chris Stewart	Who made the arrangements to get to work? Did your mother?	6:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. He come around there, come and ask you. If you wanted to go pick beans, whatever they wanted you to do, if you wanted to do it, they would ask you.	6:51
Chris Stewart	Would your whole family go or would it just be a couple of kids?	7:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, a couple of kids, or either my mother went or something like that.	7:08
Chris Stewart	Would the kids split up and go to different farms?	7:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. It was nice working like that I reckon.	7:15
Chris Stewart	You think it was nice?	7:20
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I reckon, I don't know.	7:20
Chris Stewart	Did you like it?	7:20
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I didn't like the work because I didn't want to work.	7:27
Chris Stewart	I remember you telling me that.	7:28
Chris Stewart	How come you didn't want to work?	7:32
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, you know how lazy children is. They want to play.	7:34
Chris Stewart	Did you try and get out of it?	7:39
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, I bet not, had I would got a beating.	7:42
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	7:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Now I would got a whooping if I had started that mess.	7:46
Chris Stewart	Right. What would you do when you were working in the field? What would you do to pass the time?	7:49
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Pass the time breaking. I didn't have nothing, do nothing but work all day.	7:53
Chris Stewart	Would you talk to people?	7:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Talk to the people in the field like that, and you ain't not talk too much because you ain't got to stick your mouth in grown people's businesses at that time. Now you can't do nothing because the children sticks the mouth in it. But then, you couldn't.	8:02
Chris Stewart	In grown people's business.	8:18
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	You didn't mess in their business.	8:20
Chris Stewart	What about, did you play any, I mean, while you were working, did you play any games?	8:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, not while we were working.	8:27
Chris Stewart	What kind of farm work did you do specifically?	8:30
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	We'd pick cotton. We would work in tobacco, and break in the corn fields. We'd work in any fields. Oh, my cousin going hungry.	8:40
Chris Stewart	You said you didn't like working in the field.	8:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I didn't, but I had to work in there.	8:44
Chris Stewart	You had to do it.	8:47
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	That sun would be hot.	9:01
Chris Stewart	Right. But did you ever work, what kind of work did you do when you worked with tobacco?	9:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Handed tobacco or either, we had to tie it on the stick. Call it looping tobacco.	9:10
Chris Stewart	Looping. What would you prefer to do, working with cotton or working with tobacco?	9:17
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, either one was, cotton was what it's called. And you put your hand in there, sometimes you stick your hand with them wood. But the tobacco was the best, so you just had to pull it off and there somebody with a wagon pushing behind you and take the tobacco.	9:28
Chris Stewart	Did you ever sing any songs while you were picking tobacco picking?	9:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, I don't know. I can't remember that. But you didn't say no to junk like they sing now. All them people sung because you was in with old people. They sung church songs.	9:53
Chris Stewart	Did they? Did they ever sing any blues songs?	10:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Blues? No.	10:09
Chris Stewart	Church songs.	10:09
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Church song. You sung any, oh, the children didn't mess around me that much because the parents always had them so they would sing church on. And when Sunday come, you had to go to church.	10:11
Chris Stewart	What church did you go?	10:28
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	[Indistinct 00:10:30] Chapel. No. Yeah, first St. Luke's.	10:30
Chris Stewart	Yeah?	10:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	And then we went to, they built St. John in New Bern, we went there for a while and then we got our church	10:35
Chris Stewart	That's over on the other side of the highway, right?	10:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Right.	10:46
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Is that a Baptist church or an AME?	10:46
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Baptist church.	10:48
Chris Stewart	Do you remember when you got baptized?	10:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Slightly.	10:51
Chris Stewart	What do you remember about it?	10:51
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They putting a nightgown on and the man's preacher came in the water.	10:59
Chris Stewart	Did you feel different after you got baptized?	11:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know. I can't remember that.	11:02
Chris Stewart	Did you go to the moaning bench?	11:10
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	11:11
Chris Stewart	You did? Was there a revival before?	11:12
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yes ma'am.	11:17
Chris Stewart	What was that like?	11:18
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	It was nice because all the people would come to church and they'd sit up there and sing their different church songs.	11:19
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	11:27
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	And pray. That's the way it was nice.	11:33
Chris Stewart	What kinds of things would you do for fun?	11:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Pull up, you know these straw [indistinct 00:11:54]? They pull up the grass and take the dog baby and plant the half, wash them and plant the half, we played like that. Children didn't play like they play now.	11:49
Chris Stewart	Right.	12:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	And we plant, they have you all, would make a girl and make a boy doll, and we all had a nice time. The time we had playing, we didn't have time till after we come from work like that.	12:10
Chris Stewart	When were you going to school?	12:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, the school wasn't, when school started in September, it was right around in the neighborhood. Maybe you had a school to your house. Somebody had one to that house like that.	12:28
Chris Stewart	So people have different schools and different houses. Did you go to school?	12:46
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Little while, not much.	12:48
Chris Stewart	How come you didn't go very much?	12:51
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My mother had so many children outside that worked. I had to help her and not—my father worked down there. Well, you know he was going to buy his little wine or whatever he drink. I don't know what it was.	12:53
Chris Stewart	Your father drink?	13:17
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, he drink a little.	13:17
Chris Stewart	Did your mother think that he didn't bring all of his money home?	13:17
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	He bought it home. Except he'd take a little fuss there.	13:24
Chris Stewart	Right.	13:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	He had to bring it home. He had no choice, all them children.	13:25
Chris Stewart	Yeah. How long did your father work at the fertilizer factory?	13:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, for years. Oh my God, and I know the mules working to it.	13:36
Chris Stewart	Really? Was he working there when you left home? Was he still working there when you left home?	13:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, he had, yeah. Was he? My father was dead when I left home, wasn't he?	13:49
Chris Stewart	Really? How did he die?	13:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I think he had pneumonia.	14:00
Chris Stewart	He did. Did your mother remarry?	14:05
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	14:07
Chris Stewart	She was raising those kids then all by herself?	14:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. So you didn't have no school time, you had work time.	14:10
Chris Stewart	Did your grandparents help out at all?	14:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	His mother did.	14:19
Chris Stewart	Yeah. How did she help?	14:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, she could go out and scrap up and pick up. She'd help mama with her children and help her other children. She had a lot of them. That was wonder boys, we was sitting there, one of her grandsons.	14:25
Chris Stewart	So your father died when you were still at home. So all your kids had to work, huh?	14:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, no. Yeah. All us had to work, we didn't have no time to play.	14:49
Chris Stewart	Did you get married?	15:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	15:02
Chris Stewart	How'd you meet your husband?	15:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	That's why I've been wondering. I met him in the streets somewhere.	15:07
Chris Stewart	In the street somewhere?	15:10
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, where I was working.	15:13
Chris Stewart	Yeah? How long did you court?	15:15
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, I reckon about a year. I reckon maybe now.	15:23
Chris Stewart	Yeah? Where did you get married?	15:26
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	At the courthouse.	15:28
Chris Stewart	At the courthouse?	15:32
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Dealers.	15:33
Chris Stewart	Did the two of you then farm? What kind of work did you do?	15:36
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	On the farm.	15:36
Chris Stewart	Huh?	15:39
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Still working on the farm?	15:43
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	15:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Still farming. He didn't, he worked at the fertilizer factory.	15:45
Chris Stewart	Did you stay with your mom or did you go get a house yourself?	15:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I have a house myself.	15:56
Chris Stewart	Ma'am, were you farming pretty much all your life or did you do other kind of work as well?	16:01
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, I did housework.	16:05
Chris Stewart	You did?	16:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	16:06
Chris Stewart	Where did you do housework?	16:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, New Bern.	16:08
Chris Stewart	Did you do day work or did you live in work?	16:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, day work. Say you wanted your house clean, I'd go there and clean it, like that.	16:14
Chris Stewart	How did you find out about?	16:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	About?	16:23
Chris Stewart	Who wanted their house clean?	16:26
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They would come and let you know. See, most all them older people know each other.	16:28
Chris Stewart	The older Black and White people? So did you mainly work for older people?	16:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I helped them too. Always help them. Always felt sorry for them. Some of them was old or too old to do anything, but they was mean as the devil, but.	16:42
Chris Stewart	They were?	16:54
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, ma'am.	17:02
Chris Stewart	How do you mean?	17:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They was cranky.	17:04
Chris Stewart	Yeah, what would they do?	17:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Holler at them. Make you do their work. And whatever you had to do, they'd make you do it just like your mother would. But they wouldn't hit you or nothing. But they'd score in. Then they tell you was going to tell your mother and you know was going to get a beating. They would not believe me, they'd believe them. And that's how we would, we got along pretty good. They didn't go hungry, and different one had grown up children. They would give my mother the clothes, the children clothes that they didn't want and it went like that.	17:05
Chris Stewart	Where'd you do your shopping?	17:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Old town.	17:45
Chris Stewart	Where? Old town?	17:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	New Bern.	17:48
Chris Stewart	In town?	17:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	17:51
Chris Stewart	What specific places would you go to?	17:51
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, I don't know. I know one of them was Armstrong Goat. I don't know. My mother didn't move to town.	17:55
Chris Stewart	What about when you were married? Where did you do your shopping?	18:01
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, New Bern.	18:04
Chris Stewart	Do you remember what places you would go to then?	18:05
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I can't even think of one them name.	18:05
Chris Stewart	Were there places that you couldn't go to because you were a Black woman?	18:14
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. They would let you go in and buy your stuff and come on out. That was one thing we could buy, were groceries or whatever you had and come on out. You didn't hang around there, but you go in and get your stuff and come on out.	18:18
Chris Stewart	Were there any places in James City that were considered bad places that you shouldn't go to?	18:37
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Bad places?	18:42
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	18:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	18:43
Chris Stewart	Like maybe liquor houses, peep joy.	18:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, I imagine they may been, but I wouldn't know. You at the same time your mother made you come in.	18:47
Chris Stewart	Right.	18:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	You don't stay out like you children stay now.	18:57
Chris Stewart	Did you hear about them?	18:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, I didn't. I don't know. I see my father with some, but I never know.	19:02
Chris Stewart	I talked to Ms. Gavin, who owns the store right down the street there. She told me your father owned a pool hall.	19:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. Oh, I was grown when he got that.	19:16
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Remember?	19:21
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Because I married his brother.	19:21
Chris Stewart	Right. Did you ever go to the pool hall?	19:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, I didn't.	19:28
Chris Stewart	No, that was the place that only men went?	19:30
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mens went there.	19:33
Chris Stewart	Yeah?	19:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I guess womens went there. I don't know because I didn't never go there.	19:36
Chris Stewart	What would you do for fun after you were married? What would you do to relax?	19:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Sit down around the house and sew. Get my piece of material and sew something and mess around. Or either go to your house, somebody's house, like that. You sit down, talk.	19:46
Chris Stewart	You'd go visit people then?	19:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	20:00
Chris Stewart	Yeah. When did-	20:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I never went to them joints like that. I'm calling them joints, I shouldn't call them that, but I never went to them.	20:03
Chris Stewart	Well, when would you do your visiting? What time of day would you do your visiting?	20:12
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	When you wasn't working. On Sundays, we went to church. We'd come home, we'd go see the sick and go around like that.	20:17
Chris Stewart	How many children did you have yourself ma'am?	20:28
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Two.	20:29
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	20:29
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Two boys.	20:32
Chris Stewart	When you were cleaning people's houses, were you also working in the field? Were you also farming?	20:40
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yep, helping people farm. Especially when the days that I didn't have no work, say you didn't want me today, you had to go somewhere. Well then, I would work on the farm. I would pick berries, stuff like that didn't bother us. I guess because we was outside, we wasn't in.	20:46
Chris Stewart	Did you still not like to work?	21:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I still like to work.	21:10
Chris Stewart	Did you still not like to, remember when you told me when you were a little kid you didn't like to work?	21:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, but I love working. I hate staying home. I'm talking here. I like working.	21:17
Chris Stewart	Yeah?	21:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I hate the idea of sitting down here. Now I can't work.	21:25
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	21:29
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I always like to work.	21:29
Chris Stewart	Did you and your husband own your house? Did you buy it or did you rent it?	21:30
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, my house I own there.	21:36
Chris Stewart	When you and your husband got married, did you own it?	21:40
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, we rented it. We didn't have no money. You couldn't buy, didn't have no money to buy one.	21:42
Chris Stewart	I mean, once you were together and making money, did you buy a house or did you?	21:47
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	We bought the house over there?	21:52
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Did you and your husband buy it?	21:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	22:01
Chris Stewart	How long were you married to him?	22:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh Lord. I was married to him about 20 years or more.	22:04
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Did he die or did he?	22:11
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	He died.	22:12
Chris Stewart	How old were your kids when he died.	22:14
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, my kids was already.	22:20
Chris Stewart	Grown?	22:21
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, my kids was dead when he died.	22:21
Chris Stewart	How did your children die?	22:23
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Service.	22:24
Chris Stewart	Oh, I'm so sorry.	22:27
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	So even he died in service. He died right here. See? Because we went New York and see the.	22:32
Chris Stewart	When did you go to New York?	22:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know how much. I don't know.	22:43
Chris Stewart	Had you just gotten married?	22:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, I got my children. Had children, had the two boys.	22:55
Chris Stewart	Were the boys young when you went up there?	22:58
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	23:00
Chris Stewart	How come you went up?	23:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, everybody else was going so you try what somebody else do. It's crazy.	23:03
Chris Stewart	How was New York different from here.	23:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	A lot different, because you got more for your work.	23:13
Chris Stewart	Got paid better?	23:14
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, it was a lot different. And I had part of my family and he had part of his family was up there and it was nice.	23:20
Chris Stewart	What kind of work did you do up there?	23:30
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I did housework, clean some [indistinct 00:23:37] and do something. I get. [INTERRUPTION].	23:32
Chris Stewart	New York. What kind of work did your husband do when you got up there?	23:40
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Factory.	23:45
Chris Stewart	What kind of factory work? Different kinds?	23:46
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Different kinds.	23:50
Chris Stewart	Where did you live in New York?	23:52
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	In Brooklyn.	23:53
Chris Stewart	What was your neighborhood like?	23:57
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Nice. It was all right. All the neighborhood was nice.	23:59
Chris Stewart	Was it an all Black neighborhood?	24:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, just mixed up.	24:05
Chris Stewart	How is it different living in a mixed up neighborhood as compared to living in an all Black area down here?	24:09
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, I don't know. It was all right. We all got along all right. There was a lot of Italians and different kind of people rest in all type. You got along all right. I can't tell you about them. We went to clubs and things. Get off them walls and get back over there, this child going drive me to drink. You'll see what's going to happen to you, and that's still beating.	24:15
Chris Stewart	So ma'am, we were still talking about New York. How long did you stay in New York?	24:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I stayed in there about 15 years.	24:55
Chris Stewart	Oh, so it's quite a while.	24:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	24:59
Chris Stewart	You said you lived in Brooklyn, right?	24:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	24:59
Chris Stewart	Where would you do, say your marketing in that area?	25:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Park Avenue. They had them big markets, but they had grocery stores, big grocery stores all around.	25:13
Chris Stewart	Did you go to those?	25:20
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, when I was in a hurry and didn't have time to mess around.	25:22
Chris Stewart	Yeah? What about clothes?	25:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, that was downtown. You could get them.	25:28
Chris Stewart	Would you still, remember you told me that what you did for entertainment when you were here is that you visit people. Would you be visiting people?	25:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	25:43
Chris Stewart	What other kinds of things would you do?	25:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Go to church and visit people. It was nice. Some of them come down here to see me now. Some of the younger ones, the older ones don't much.	25:51
Chris Stewart	How come you came back to James City then?	26:01
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Because I was tired up there. I come back and my mother-in-law of them was.	26:04
Chris Stewart	Because you were tired, you said? What were you tired of?	26:09
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Tired of up there?	26:13
Chris Stewart	What were you tired of?	26:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know. I'd rather been home. It was nice up there. I mean, it wasn't bad, rough like it is now. It was nice up there. You could go out, you could go to church or go to the malls.	26:15
Chris Stewart	Was there something that happened that made you decide to come back?	26:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-mm.	26:37
Chris Stewart	Just decide to come back?	26:40
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	26:42
Chris Stewart	Your husband come back?	26:42
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, my sons had died.	26:43
Chris Stewart	By then?	26:49
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. See they got hurt. They died in army, they were army. And we come back, huh.	26:50
Chris Stewart	So what did you do then when you came back here to New York, I mean to James City?	27:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Stayed here and went to work.	27:10
Chris Stewart	Yeah. What kind of work did you do again?	27:10
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Factory work at any time I could get.	27:10
Chris Stewart	Did you have any of the people that you worked for doing housework, did you have any people that you particularly liked and any people that you didn't like very much?	27:19
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I liked them all. I never had nobody I disliked.	27:25
Chris Stewart	But some of them you said were grumpy.	27:28
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, then I quit them.	27:31
Chris Stewart	You did? Right. Did you know women who were doing live-in work, who were living in?	27:36
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, they didn't have that then.	27:41
Chris Stewart	Really?	27:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Didn't have no living, everybody went home and at a certain time then they come back the next morning.	27:46
Chris Stewart	What time would you start work at?	27:57
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	You can start at eight o'clock, seven o'clock if you want. They didn't say nothing.	27:59
Chris Stewart	When did you get home then?	28:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Time that cook yourself and your children get out of school.	28:10
Chris Stewart	About what time?	28:14
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I'd say about three o'clock or four if I'm home.	28:16
Chris Stewart	How would you get to the places where you worked?	28:19
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Walked.	28:21
Chris Stewart	What about if it was raining?	28:21
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	You walked, take your umbrella and walk. You didn't have no cars, no. And the first man got a car? Yeah, everybody like to have a fit.	28:25
Chris Stewart	Really?	28:30
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	28:30
Chris Stewart	How come?	28:30
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Because nobody had no cars over here.	28:43
Chris Stewart	Do you remember that?	28:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	28:46
Chris Stewart	Who got it?	28:46
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mr. Dunson.	28:48
Chris Stewart	Dunson?	28:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	28:59
Chris Stewart	What kind of car was it?	28:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know that now, imagine it was a Ford. I don't know.	28:59
Chris Stewart	What'd it look like to you? I mean, just describe what it looked like ma'am. Just when you first saw it, what did you think?	28:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Saw the car?	29:03
Chris Stewart	Saw the car.	29:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, something to me. He lived right down the street there somewhere. He got that car and he was the only one and everybody said he was the only rich man. That's what the people said. But he wasn't, he worked just like anybody else and then he got his money, he got it. His children and all was older than my mother.	29:09
Chris Stewart	Oh, they were?	29:32
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, Sam Dunson, his name was.	29:33
Chris Stewart	Sam Johnson?	29:38
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Dunson.	29:38
Chris Stewart	Dunson.	29:38
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	And he got him that car, it was nice. Wasn't nothing but an old car. Got no new car, I don't think.	29:42
Chris Stewart	Did he carry children around? Give them rides?	29:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Are you kidding? Not that hateful man.	29:51
Chris Stewart	Ooh. What was so hateful about him?	29:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	He wasn't. He just thought he was better than anybody else.	29:57
Chris Stewart	He did?	29:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, he was because he had more money.	30:01
Chris Stewart	What kind of work did he do?	30:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know. It was over old towns or some factory or something over there.	30:06
Chris Stewart	But he was richer than others?	30:12
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	30:13
Chris Stewart	But he lived over here.	30:14
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Right down there by that church.	30:18
Chris Stewart	Oh yeah?	30:20
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Uh-huh.	30:21
Chris Stewart	Were there other people who you knew who were like that who?	30:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, not too many. If they did, they didn't show it.	30:29
Chris Stewart	Oh, okay.	30:31
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They didn't show it.	30:31
Chris Stewart	Did you know of, when I was talking to Ms. Gavin, she told me that there were young women and young men who were dating who perhaps shouldn't have been dating, say young White men and young Black women or young Black men and young White women. Did you hear about that?	30:37
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. I never known that and I don't think it would've last. Them White folks would have killed them.	31:02
Chris Stewart	Really?	31:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yes, they would've.	31:10
Chris Stewart	Why do you think that?	31:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Because they didn't mix together like that. Not down here now. Oh, well maybe she knowed it because she's so much younger than me.	31:14
Chris Stewart	So maybe by the time she was.	31:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They was mixing.	31:28
Chris Stewart	But maybe when you were coming up.	31:29
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	You didn't mix. Mm-mm.	31:32
Chris Stewart	Was there anything going on in secret?	31:36
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Not that I know of. But after we come from work, you didn't go out. I didn't go out. I couldn't tell you. No, you didn't fool around. The White didn't mess with the Colored, and the Colored boys didn't mess with the White. They didn't mix up like that.	31:37
Chris Stewart	Did you ever hear of any women getting hurt by White men?	31:55
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	31:58
Chris Stewart	Not that they, I mean that it wasn't their fault that somebody hurt them.	32:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	32:07
Chris Stewart	No?	32:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	32:09
Chris Stewart	When you were going to school, did any of your teachers talk to you about boys?	32:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Just tell you be careful and don't hang out. All of them like they usually do. They was older teachers.	32:18
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Were there any young girls who made a mistake and got pregnant?	32:28
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	32:35
Chris Stewart	What would happen to them when that?	32:36
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Most and generally the man would marry her.	32:39
Chris Stewart	Really? Were there people who men didn't marry? Young girls who men didn't marry?	32:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. I don't know. I don't remember any.	32:50
Chris Stewart	What would their girlfriends, how would the girls' girlfriends react or parents in the community?	32:54
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	All right.	33:01
Chris Stewart	It was okay?	33:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	The boy most after marry them and they had their babies and gone down the street with them. That's one thing, they didn't have no trouble.	33:06
Chris Stewart	Did you remember seeing Jim Crow signs? Signs, White and Colored? Signs, like at the water fountains or in the bus?	33:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yes, they had them. You go here and they go there, and you go up this bathroom over here and they go to this one over here, they had all them now.	33:41
Chris Stewart	Did you ever know anybody who didn't follow those signs?	33:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Everybody followed them. Especially over this way, everybody followed those signs.	33:55
Chris Stewart	Did people talk about them?	34:01
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. They just say they be glad and it be so you can go anywhere you want, huh. And that's that. Yeah. A lot of places you could go in, you couldn't go.	34:04
Chris Stewart	What places couldn't you go?	34:16
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	A lot of grocery stores and different things. You had to go around the side door, the Colored here. Yeah, it was a lot of them.	34:20
Chris Stewart	What would happen to you if you didn't go up down to the side door?	34:35
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They wouldn't attend. They wouldn't sell it to you. They'd tell you straight, you know you're not allowed in this store like that. They had signs, you would know which door to go in, which door not to go in. We had the Colored movies, you had to go over there. And you know there was the Colored churches. And when they changed it, it was different.	34:39
Chris Stewart	Is there a movie theater here in James City?	35:16
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	35:18
Chris Stewart	You always had to travel to New Bern?	35:18
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Always have to, always have, and always will. Some down that way, down towards movie here. But everybody usually go to New Bern, and I guess they figured [indistinct 00:35:50]. They go over there to them same movies, all of them go. I guess they figured that so all of them for these over here and some them out for, and out that way to go to New Bern. Don't ask me, I can't figure why they figured that out. I never tried.	35:28
Chris Stewart	Did you know of any men who tried to or worked as fishermen in this area to try and get?	36:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Catch fish.	36:11
Chris Stewart	Right.	36:12
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	36:12
Chris Stewart	Did anybody in your family do that?	36:15
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	36:17
Chris Stewart	Where would they sell the fish?	36:18
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, towns of the fish market.	36:20
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	36:26
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	The fish markets were bomb. And those Colored people, they had fish markets too. So you could go to either one of them and then they got, so you could go anywhere you want them buy the fish in the store.	36:26
Chris Stewart	Yeah. So there was a Colored fish market as well.	36:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Huh?	36:47
Chris Stewart	You said when you were coming up there was a Colored fish market?	36:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, they had a fish market, it was on [indistinct 00:36:58].	36:55
Chris Stewart	When were you born ma'am?	37:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Huh?	37:02
Chris Stewart	When were you born?	37:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	1909. May the 1st.	37:04
Chris Stewart	May day. Wow. So when you came back to live here in James City, what part you did you come over to this part of town then to Brownsville?	37:09
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Come over here.	37:25
Chris Stewart	By that time, how old were you about?	37:26
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, I guess about 20 or 30.	37:29
Chris Stewart	When you came back?	37:32
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. And I've been here ever since.	37:32
Chris Stewart	Do you remember having any family celebrations when you were growing up? Anything where like birthdays or holidays?	37:40
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, they didn't have them.	37:48
Chris Stewart	How come?	37:51
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know. But you know them old people didn't believe in them, a lot of stuff like that. They'll tell you first they had to work too hard to get what they wanted. To get something, and they not put it on. No, they didn't have it. Now they have it, but they didn't then. Them people had to work hard to have a living. And they were not spending on no birthday party or no party. But if some children would come around, my mother would bake a cake or something or some cookies like that and give them. But they didn't have no party. People didn't have it. If they had those town, that I didn't know because I didn't hang out over there.	37:54
Chris Stewart	So did you take care of your brothers and sisters? You were babysitting?	38:46
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, I mother my brothers and sisters because it was so much younger than me.	38:56
Chris Stewart	Did any of your other brothers and sisters go to school?	39:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, all of them did doing that. No, I got one brother in New York and I got one sister in there.	39:06
Chris Stewart	Yeah. If you were to think about what kind of values your mother gave to you to bring to you into adulthood, what would you say those are? Values, what kinds of values? Things that were important to you.	39:17
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Church.	39:33
Chris Stewart	Church?	39:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	That was her biggest. She believed in church.	39:34
Chris Stewart	What did it mean to her?	39:42
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	It meant a lot to her. Her religion was old, she meant that she went to church. And Saturday evenings when they go shopping, they would take some care some of us one time, and some of us another time. When we was small, they couldn't take us all. Because they had to walk and she couldn't carry them children. Thank God it's so much different now. Girls don't have no trouble.	39:45
Chris Stewart	Did your parents have a buggy or a wagon?	40:20
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Had a wagon. We had a wagon for a while and then it got out of hand, the horse died. And then we walked. Or somebody come along with their wagon and then give us a lift.	40:24
Chris Stewart	Pick you up. Your mother have a garden in her house?	40:40
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, we have a garden.	40:46
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	40:47
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Butter bean, corn, everything we raised it right in the yard, in the garden.	40:52
Chris Stewart	Did she can?	41:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	41:01
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Do you remember canning time?	41:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, I remember that. But don't ask me, because I didn't.	41:05
Chris Stewart	Because you didn't do it?	41:05
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	41:05
Chris Stewart	How come?	41:05
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I was too lazy.	41:12
Chris Stewart	Did your mother get angry with you because you were lazy?	41:16
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, because she'd make me do something else.	41:17
Chris Stewart	Do you remember when you got electricity?	41:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, I can't remember that. But it's been a long time. I can't remember when we got lights, they had to put them all over. I guess when they put them over New Bern but I don't remember.	41:27
Chris Stewart	Did your lights change when you got lights?	41:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	41:50
Chris Stewart	How?	41:51
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	When we got lights, because we didn't have to mess with the lamp. That had to drag that kerosene can off and down the street behind [indistinct 00:41:58] and they didn't have to.	41:51
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	42:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	But that's been a good long ago.	42:03
Chris Stewart	Was the house brighter?	42:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Brighter, yes.	42:05
Chris Stewart	How was that?	42:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know. The electric was better.	42:07
Chris Stewart	What other kinds of things did you have that you didn't have before when you didn't have lights?	42:12
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	[Indistinct 00:42:20] and lamps and there wasn't nothing else we had.	42:20
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	42:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	And that's funny. They had them in the churches and everything, and it didn't bother them.	42:25
Chris Stewart	Who made the decisions in your house?	42:36
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Huh?	42:38
Chris Stewart	About kids, who made decisions in your house about disciplining the kids?	42:39
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My mother.	42:42
Chris Stewart	How would she do it?	42:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Spank us.	42:46
Chris Stewart	Were there other people in your neighborhood who could discipline you?	42:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. You didn't walk on them, you wasn't like get you, look how it's raining. You didn't be fresh with, like these children is now. Now a kid come in here, garbage truck. A kid come in here, they'll sass you out or come out there, you say something to me that, you couldn't do that.	42:54
Chris Stewart	What would happen to you?	43:14
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	You would spank them if I didn't. If I didn't spank my kid, you would. People made the children mind then. They ain't like the children is now.	43:16
Chris Stewart	Was there somebody in your neighborhood when you were growing up besides your mom and dad, who was really special to you? Who you spent a lot of time with?	43:30
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, my aunt, my grandmother. They all lived together.	43:38
Chris Stewart	What was so special about them?	43:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They was nicer. They'd cook cakes, they always cooking and then with potato pies and stuff like that. That's the garbage truck. Gone on back, don't be so nosy.	43:47
Speaker 1	It's rain.	43:58
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	She know it.	44:01
Speaker 1	Yeah, it is rain.	44:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I say she know it. And they would always have something for children when you come around. But now you didn't go to everybody's house.	44:05
Chris Stewart	Which houses did you choose to go to?	44:17
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, the one that's nice.	44:19
Chris Stewart	So you knew which ones were nice?	44:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, how they treat you.	44:24
Chris Stewart	Yeah, which were the people in your neighborhood that you didn't go to?	44:27
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh Lord, a lot of them. I don't know. You can't go out now Peter.	44:31
Speaker 2	I know.	44:39
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	A lot of them be.	44:42
Chris Stewart	A lot of them?	44:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	44:44
Chris Stewart	But you really liked your aunt and your grandma?	44:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	44:52
Chris Stewart	Did they live close by?	44:52
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	All us, it was a family together rather around.	44:52
Chris Stewart	Were there times where your whole family would go over to your grandparents' house to do something? Maybe Sunday afternoon? I was asking you about going over to your parents' house, your grandparents' house, Sunday afternoon. Would you do that?	44:52
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	45:17
Chris Stewart	What would you do when you went over?	45:17
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Sat down, eat, talk. Y'all go in the room. Get out of here. If I have a time with the children.	45:17
Chris Stewart	I see that. So you would go over to your grandparents' house on Sunday afternoon?	45:17
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	And they'd go every day to my grandparents' house.	45:19
Chris Stewart	Would?	45:23
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Because then us, I lived over there and they lived over here.	45:25
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Would you go there because your parents were working?	45:31
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-mm. I don't know what we did when we were small. But your parents could tell you stay home, then you stayed home.	45:34
Chris Stewart	Right. Do you remember reading about or having any people that you really looked up.	45:46

Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Nobody down here [indistinct 00:00:04]. No. Nobody my age, there wasn't no radios around.	0:00
Chris Stewart	What about newspapers? Where'd you get your news?	0:16
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	If they [indistinct 00:00:21] time, you heard somebody say something happened until '50, '51. That's the way they got it.	0:21
Chris Stewart	I see. So you'd hear from other people.	0:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. Then we were hear around. They would tell one and one would tell the other, and they didn't have all this stuff like they got now when I come up. They wasn't even no newspaper, I don't think.	0:30
Chris Stewart	Really? Did you go to the beauty shop when you were a teenager?	0:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. There wasn't no beauty shop. You did whatever you did to your hair yourself. You do whatever you do. You do it to yourself.	0:51
Chris Stewart	You do it yourself.	1:01
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Look, I was born in 1909, that's a long ways back. Whatever you did, you'd get your pan of water. We didn't have no sinks, and farther, we had pumps. Pump you some water and heat it if you wanted it with the wood stove. Wash your hair and go on. You washed it too. They didn't have it like they got it now.	1:02
Chris Stewart	They didn't have it, huh? What about barbershops? Were there barbershops in town?	1:33
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. One barber shop [indistinct 00:01:41] the one barber shop [indistinct 00:01:43]. My husband cut hair. He would cut different ones hair and different ones cut the next one. That's the way they did. They didn't have all that.	1:38
Chris Stewart	I see.	1:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	And a lot of the men's wives cut the hair.	1:57
Chris Stewart	Oh I see.	2:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They didn't have all that, and I couldn't.	2:03
Chris Stewart	At what point in your life did people stop treating you like a child?	2:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My people?	2:11
Chris Stewart	Yes.	2:12
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Never, til they died. What they said I had to do what they—never, I always listened to them.	2:12
Chris Stewart	What about other people besides your people?	2:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I listened, especially if they was older than me. You better listen. They'd beat you.	2:28
Chris Stewart	Did your parents teach you how to act around adults?	2:35
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Around grown people?	2:37
Chris Stewart	Around grown people.	2:39
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. They tell you respect them. They're older than you. They make you do that. If you didn't, you would get a beating, and furthermore, them older people would beat you if you didn't respect them.	2:41
Chris Stewart	Was there a difference between the way you were supposed to act around White adults and Black adults?	2:54
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, ma'am. You had to respect everybody. When I come along, you had to respect everybody. Everybody that was older, you respected them.	2:59
Chris Stewart	What about children? Did you ever play with White children?	3:11
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, many of them.	3:14
Chris Stewart	People living around this area?	3:19
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Around this area. I was up that way. They was around there. I've been on the farms. People had children, you got them, play with them, tend the them, change their diapers. Do anything, they wouldn't mind.	3:21
Chris Stewart	Was there a point in your life when you had to stop playing with White children?	3:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, I never remember. I don't know. Yeah, I guess it was, but I don't remember that. I know when we'd be in the field, they'd be on one side and we'd be on the other side.	3:46
Chris Stewart	Were they working?	4:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. When they get ready.	4:02
Chris Stewart	What did you think about them not working you're having to work?	4:09
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Thank God. Say why can't they work? But then you think they had the money and we didn't. So you had to wait and get the money.	4:14
Chris Stewart	Why did they have the money?	4:23
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They parents had money. How would we be working for their parents? That's how you [indistinct 00:04:34]. But you got a long, thank God.	4:26
Chris Stewart	So what school did you go to, ma'am?	4:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I tell you, there wasn't no special school, so just a man here teach, a man there, a woman there teach you what you could learn.	4:47
Chris Stewart	Well, did you have a favorite teacher during the time you were going to school? Did you like school?	4:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I liked it, but I didn't go enough to know, because you had a chance to sit down and wouldn't have to wait.	5:01
Chris Stewart	Do you remember anything, any kind of tragedy or big event that happened here in James City? Like a flood or a bad accident or something that happened while you were—	5:14
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	We had high tide but no floods, and I remember one time we had a windstorm. I don't remember nothing much about that. It wasn't bad with us.	5:26
Chris Stewart	Nothing like some bad thing happened where a fire of some sort or something.	5:42
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, we had fires.	5:47
Chris Stewart	Do you remember the big New Bern fire?	5:49
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	5:51
Chris Stewart	What do you remember about that?	5:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know.	5:54
Chris Stewart	Did people from James City go over to New Bern to try and help fight?	5:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Everybody went over there that could. Everybody mixed it, when that fire was there, everybody was mixing.	6:09
Chris Stewart	What do you mean mixing?	6:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	The White and the Colored.	6:16
Chris Stewart	Mixing to try and fight the fire or—	6:18
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	6:20
Chris Stewart	You mean in general?	6:21
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They was mixing in general like they do now, not quite as bad as they do.	6:22
Chris Stewart	So by that time, you said that they were—	6:27
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	More friendly, let's say, I was more friendly than you, and you was more friendly to me.	6:35
Chris Stewart	But not when you were young.	6:38
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	6:39
Chris Stewart	Did your father help fight the fire?	6:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, my father was dead.	6:47
Chris Stewart	Dead by then. What about any relatives? Did You have any relatives?	6:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, they're old men. Everybody went. They had to walk, but you ought to see them running across that bridge. They tried to help out.	6:53
Chris Stewart	How did they try to help out? What did they—	7:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Put water, most of them carry water. Try to put it out.	7:06
Chris Stewart	What happened to the people who lost their homes and businesses?	7:12
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, people help them the best they could, give what they could.	7:18
Chris Stewart	Where did they live?	7:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know. That I couldn't tell you, because see, we wasn't allowed to go over there. No way. They wasn't allow to [indistinct 00:07:34] store. Your parents didn't allow you to go.	7:27
Chris Stewart	Your parents didn't allow it. Was that both before and after the fire you couldn't go?	7:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Go when they tell you. We didn't run the street like these children do.	7:45
Chris Stewart	So how did you hear about the fire?	7:55
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Somebody working over there come over and told it, and B, as that fire goes over there, you can stand over there and look at it fine.	7:59
Chris Stewart	Really? Wow.	8:10
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	The children didn't run the street like the children run now.	8:15
Chris Stewart	When you got sick, where did you get help?	8:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Had to get to your doctor.	8:28
Chris Stewart	Who were the doctors?	8:31
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, the Dr. Mann, Dr. Fisher and oh, the Silver doctors. I can't think.	8:33
Chris Stewart	White or Black doctors?	8:42
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They was Black, and we go to the basement of St. Luke. You know where that is, huh? Where we could go there in the basement there. They would wait on.	8:48
Chris Stewart	What was it like down there in the basement?	8:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I couldn't tell you. I never went.	9:01
Chris Stewart	You never went?	9:05
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-mm.	9:05
Chris Stewart	Did you have your children at home or in the basement of St. Luke's?	9:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, we had midwives would come to the house.	9:11
Chris Stewart	Do you remember when your children were born?	9:16
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I'm trying to think now, I don't know.	9:19
Chris Stewart	Was it a hard delivery or an easy delivery?	9:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	It must have been an easy delivery, because the people would be right there to your bed. Your mother be there or whoever was there.	9:26
Chris Stewart	So you called a midwife?	9:33
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	9:33
Chris Stewart	How many midwives were in the area?	9:37
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, about seven, eight.	9:39
Chris Stewart	Really? Why did you choose this midwife?	9:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Because she's my cousin.	9:47
Chris Stewart	This one was your cousin? I see, all in the family, huh?	9:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-mm, and she was right next to us, and then you go to the one near area.	9:56
Chris Stewart	Were there other kinds of services that midwives provided besides helping to birth babies?	10:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. If somebody would get sick, come to the hospital, they'd take care of them, help them.	10:18
Chris Stewart	What kinds of things would they do for them?	10:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, I don't know. You wasn't allowed to go in grown people's rooms, but they would wait on them if they needed to give them a bath and do that.	10:26
Chris Stewart	Was there anybody in your neighborhood or after you were grown, was there anybody that you knew who used herbs or teas or roots to help?	10:38
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	10:53
Chris Stewart	To help make people better?	10:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. I hear them talk about it. Get out of here. Go home. Go out, go, all right. I'm going to throws this water on you. Okay, baby. See, you, B.	10:55
Chris Stewart	You heard about it, you said?	11:06
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	11:07
Chris Stewart	What did you hear?	11:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	About what?	11:10
Chris Stewart	Home remedies, people who had home remedies to help.	11:11
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, I heard of them.	11:15
Chris Stewart	What did you hear?	11:15
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	The such and such a one give somebody some medicine that'll help them, like that, and go there and will rub them and bathe them, like that.	11:24
Chris Stewart	Do you hear many people who worked roots?	11:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, I never heard of that until here they told, after I was growing up.	11:36
Chris Stewart	When you were grown, what did you hear?	11:42
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	People say, "Such and such was messing with them roots." I don't know which was in drinking, or what.	11:45
Chris Stewart	Was it a bad thing to mess with roots?	11:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know.	11:54
Chris Stewart	You sound like it was.	11:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	It sounds like it was, because I used to hear my mother say, "They should all be ashamed instead of messing with them old roots."	12:00
Chris Stewart	I see.	12:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Like that. That's what they got. But I don't know nothing about no roots. They didn't tell you nothing. People who brought the children up, you didn't know nothing.	12:06
Chris Stewart	What about when you got older though? When you became an adult? When you were grown?	12:20
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	When I was grown, then I got married.	12:25
Chris Stewart	So what did you think about that kind of stuff then?	12:27
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	You didn't hear it much.	12:33
Chris Stewart	You didn't. What would you do for your children when they got sick?	12:36
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Take them to the doctor.	12:39
Chris Stewart	Where was the doctor located?	12:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, near, Dr. Mann over near me. Take them to him or call him.	12:46
Chris Stewart	Would they come out?	12:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah.	12:51
Chris Stewart	Would there be anybody else besides the doctor who would be able to help you?	12:52
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They used to have the midwives.	12:56
Chris Stewart	What would they do?	12:59
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Miss, I couldn't tell you. Try to beat them down to get rid of their fever with ice and water.	13:01
Chris Stewart	Do you remember, did you ever travel in North Carolina? Go from here to maybe Washington, North Carolina—	13:17
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, we went on excursions.	13:28
Chris Stewart	What would you do on those?	13:32
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Hmm?	13:33
Chris Stewart	What would you do on those?	13:35
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, sometimes it'd be church. Sometimes we'd go to the beach or wherever, like that.	13:38
Chris Stewart	Atlantic Beach? Which beach would you go to?	13:43
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Wherever the bus, all them went. You didn't go unless you went on the bus out.	13:49
Chris Stewart	Somebody told me that Atlantic Beach was a big beach to go to. It's about 45 minutes from here.	13:52
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Uh-huh.	13:59
Chris Stewart	Did you remember traveling in any segregated buses or segregated trains?	14:05
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yes, I have. You had to ride to the back, and they would be to the front. I have everything.	14:10
Chris Stewart	What was that like?	14:16
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	It was all right because we was used to it.	14:18
Chris Stewart	How would you prepare for making a trip like that?	14:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Just take whatever you had do it. You had to go to the back and you knowed that but you was raised up with it. Then you go right on there.	14:29
Chris Stewart	Did you ever see anybody who didn't go to the back?	14:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. Everybody listened to it. The ones went to the front. They just walked straight through and that's all. When you know a thing is that way, you go ahead and do it.	14:43
Chris Stewart	What about places to eat when you were traveling?	15:02
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, they had places where there's Colored and one was—	15:08
Chris Stewart	How would you find out where the Colored one was?	15:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh, you'd see a sign or see something in the window.	15:15
Chris Stewart	Ma'am, can you think of anything that I haven't asked you that'd you—	15:23
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No. I've been thinking, I can't, so they go to the beach.	15:25
Chris Stewart	What would you do at the beach when you went?	15:36
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Nothing. They had a part for the Colored in the parking lots.	15:38
Chris Stewart	What would you do there?	15:42
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Swim, and you could walk around and window shop. That was good. That's been so many years. I can't even think.	15:44
Chris Stewart	I was hoping to get down to Atlantic Beach maybe sometime soon.	16:01
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I ain't been to that. When I was little, you didn't go to Atlantic Beach.	16:08
Speaker 1	You got it on.	16:22
Chris Stewart	Huh?	16:22
Speaker 1	It's—	16:22
Chris Stewart	It's a ways away.	16:22
Speaker 1	For a dollar.	16:22
Chris Stewart	A dollar?	16:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	A dollar? [INTERRUPTION].	16:22
Chris Stewart	Can you give me your full name?	16:22
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My full name?	16:24
Chris Stewart	Uh-huh.	16:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Luvenia Joyner.	16:27
Chris Stewart	Is it L-O-U-	16:28
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	L-U-V-E-N-I-A.	16:29
Chris Stewart	What's your maiden name?	16:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Joyner.	16:35
Chris Stewart	Your maiden name?	16:37
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Before our marriage, Forskey, F-O-R-S-K-E-Y.	16:42
Chris Stewart	What's your telephone number, ma'am?	16:54
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Here? I don't know. What's the phone?	16:57
Chris Stewart	And you were born here in James City?	17:00
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	17:02
Speaker 1	I'm talking about, I'm a wow.	17:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Shut-up.	17:09
Chris Stewart	What was your husband's name?	17:10
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Ben Joyner. Know where you went to see Ann at?	17:12
Chris Stewart	Yeah.	17:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	That was her father's brother.	17:24
Chris Stewart	That's Ann's—do you know his birthdate?	17:24
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	17:25
Chris Stewart	When did he die?	17:35
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Oh gee.	17:35
Chris Stewart	Do you know how old he was when he died?	17:35
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, he was about 60.	17:35
Chris Stewart	That's good. Was he born here in James City too?	17:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know. People were born, they were born, I guess he was.	17:52
Chris Stewart	What was your mom's name, your mother's name?	17:54
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Fanny Forskey.	17:55
Chris Stewart	Do you know what her maiden name was?	17:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Hamm.	18:02
Chris Stewart	Hamm?	18:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, Fanny Hamm. That's what they was named. That's what her name was.	18:06
Chris Stewart	Was she born here in James City too?	18:08
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Down the road further. They call it Thurmond.	18:16
Chris Stewart	Call it?	18:21
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	That's Thurmond down that way.	18:24
Chris Stewart	Thurmond town?	18:25
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	The name was just Thurmond.	18:27
Chris Stewart	Thurmonds.	18:27
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	But her name was—she was up here.	18:27
Chris Stewart	Yeah. What about your father's name?	18:35
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Manuel Forskey.	18:38
Chris Stewart	Was he born here?	18:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Who?	18:56
Chris Stewart	Your father?	18:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yes.	18:57
Chris Stewart	Do you remember the names of your brothers and sisters?	19:04
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My brother and sister, yeah, Mary.	19:07
Chris Stewart	Huh?	19:11
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mary Forskey, Canella, that's my brother.	19:11
Chris Stewart	Canella?	19:11
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah. One named Dan and there was five of us girls. Now, mine, Margie, that's real, I mean. How many I give you?	19:25
Chris Stewart	There's five, including you so far.	19:51
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	That's all of them. My sister, Mary, Margie, Sydney, and that's all. That was all of them.	20:00
Chris Stewart	Were you the oldest or-	20:15
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No, my brother—oh, the other ones was dead. My brother Manuel was the oldest.	20:25
Chris Stewart	Do you know the names of the other ones that aren't alive still?	20:40
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They dead?	20:43
Chris Stewart	Yeah. Manuel?	20:44
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Did I give you Canella?	20:47
Chris Stewart	You gave me Canella.	20:48
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	William.	20:52
Chris Stewart	William.	20:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Dan, Canella. I gave it Dan, didn't I? Dan, Canella, William, did I give you Manuel?	20:59
Chris Stewart	Any more girls?	21:10
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Besides me?	21:16
Chris Stewart	And Mary and Margie.	21:18
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mary, Margie, Sydney, Gladys, that's all of them, I think so.	21:24
Chris Stewart	So where were you? Were you a middle child or where were you in the birth order?	21:47
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My brother Manuel was the oldest, and I think, I don't know. I don't know which one. I'm not the oldest.	21:51
Chris Stewart	What about your children's names?	22:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My children? One was named Frank.	22:03
Chris Stewart	Was he born here in James City?	22:18
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	That's what I'm thinking, yeah. Where was he? I don't know. We stayed away so long. I don't know.	22:22
Chris Stewart	When was he born?	22:31
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I don't know.	22:37
Chris Stewart	What about your other son?	22:38
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Frank, I don't know. What was his name? Can't think of. They both died since service [indistinct 00:23:02]. I don't know. I can't think no more. I just can't think of him.	22:39
Chris Stewart	So what's your—	23:32
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	My other son was Benny.	23:33
Chris Stewart	Good job.	23:33
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I had to think.	23:39
Chris Stewart	I knew you could come up with it.	23:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	His name was Benny. Honey, I had to think.	23:42
Chris Stewart	I believe it.	23:45
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Because there's so many names there we called him.	23:45
Chris Stewart	I know.	23:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	They two are dead.	24:00
Chris Stewart	Now, what church do you belong to?	24:05
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Pilgrim Chapel.	24:07
Chris Stewart	And this is a Free Will Baptist or just a Baptist?	24:16
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Just a Baptist. Free Will Baptists is over in New Bern.	24:19
Chris Stewart	Have you ever belonged to any organizations, community or social clubs or?	24:34
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Did I belong to? No.	24:40
Chris Stewart	Have you ever?	24:41
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	The Roots, that was a, organization.	24:46
Chris Stewart	The Roots?	24:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	24:51
Chris Stewart	What did you do in that club?	24:53
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Like a lodge.	24:58
Chris Stewart	Like a lodge. Was it secret lodge?	24:58
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	No.	25:00
Chris Stewart	What kind of things would you do there?	25:03
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Nothing but sit down and talk.	25:05
Chris Stewart	Really? How come you decided to join?	25:07
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Well, there wasn't no where else to go sometimes.	25:12
Chris Stewart	What was the tents? Did you ever get involved with the tents? What other groups?	25:18
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	I can't think of any other ones. I'm thinking now.	25:25
Chris Stewart	What about church groups? Were there any church groups?	25:29
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, I was one of the deacon there Sunday, and I was one of the [indistinct 00:25:39] in the church.	25:32
Chris Stewart	Do you have any hobbies or things that you like to do?	25:50
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yes, sew.	25:53
Chris Stewart	You're a sewer, huh? You make clothes for friends or do you make knickknacks, things like—	25:56
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Not now, I don't. I can't see.	26:03
Chris Stewart	Did you use to?	26:07
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Uh-huh.	26:07
Chris Stewart	You used to do that?	26:10
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Uh-huh.	26:11
Chris Stewart	Did you sew for your kids?	26:13
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Yeah, I made all my kids' clothes.	26:14
Chris Stewart	Did you?	26:14
Luvenia Forskey Joyner	Mm-hmm.	26:17

Item Info

Title:

Luvenia Joyner interview recording, 1993 August 05

Date:

August 5, 1993

Creator:

Joyner, Luvenia Forskey

Contributor:

Stewart, Chris M.

Description:

Name: Luvenia Forskey Joyner; Date of birth: 1909-05-01; Place of birth: James City, NC; Occupation(s): agriculture; domestic?; Residence: James City, NC
Informant ID: 275; Interviewed by: Chris Stewart.

Occupation:

Location:

Format:

Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-1999

Series:

Related Resources:

See below

Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

Rights:

Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

Rights Note:

Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

Identifier:

Interview number: 701
60eb59e4-56ab-4628-a8f6-a8d641870f1a
behindtheveil
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31a43f72-2dcf-4f7c-92b3-b3e4c7b7264d

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Luvenia Joyner interview recording, 1993 August 05

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1. Luvenia Joyner administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Luvenia Joyner interview recording, 1993 August 05

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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