Ann Atwater interview recording, 1993 May 28
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Transcript
Transcripts may contain inaccuracies.
Karen Ferguson | Maybe you could start off telling us where you grew up, with whom, and what community you grew up in. | 0:02 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. I'll start off by saying my birth date, I was born July the 1st, 1935 in Columbus County. The name of the town is Hallsboro, North Carolina, I usually tell people it's Whiteville because it's only seven miles away. I was born they say around 12 o'clock in the day, and a midwife delivered me. After that, growing up—I guess I had a normal growing up I would say. At age six, my mother died. My father remarried shortly after that, but until he married, the children had to mostly look after themselves. I got married when I was 13, going on 14. I've had three children, my first child died. I think I was married about two years—I believe it was two years before my first. I believe that's right, I'm not even sure. Now when my first child was born, he was a blue baby and he lived only 30 minutes. | 0:14 |
Ann George Atwater | We lived on a farm and we stayed with my father, he owned his own home, but he said he worked 25 cents a day, and he built this home. Of course after that and he got the farm, he started working at the saw mill, and that's basically where he worked up until he died. I was 19 I think when he died. But, I didn't remember my mama too much being sick. I can remember her funeral and I remember a little bit about her, I know she had arthritis and would swell up, and they didn't have walkers. They might have had them, but we didn't have any, so she would push two chairs over the floor to walk. Then, that's what I remember, and then I remember her being sick in the bed before she died. That's about as much as I remember her. But my daddy would, what I call it, hire us out to people. If someone wanted to gather the crop, he would always hire us out on days that we weren't busy in our field. We had tobacco and corn, we didn't have any cotton. | 1:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Did he own his own farm? | 2:52 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes. | 2:53 |
Karen Ferguson | He did? | 2:53 |
Ann George Atwater | Mm-hmm. | 2:53 |
Karen Ferguson | He owned it when you were born too? He was—? | 2:57 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes. But in order for him to have the monies to keep his going, it's like I said, he would hire us out. | 3:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, I understand. Do you remember anything about your grandparents? | 3:08 |
Ann George Atwater | No. My grandparents, the only thing they said that my father's mother was an Indian, and the picture of her with her straight hair and everything, she looked just like one, my father did and all of his sisters and brothers did. Now, my mother was real, real dark. | 3:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember any stories being told about your grandparents, about what they did or—? | 3:33 |
Ann George Atwater | No, I can't. | 3:36 |
Karen Ferguson | No? Who did you grow up with? Was it just your immediate family? | 3:42 |
Ann George Atwater | Just my immediate family. Then, when I got married, it was me and my husband. Then we separated and then we went back together, we moved to Durham, and this was in '53 we moved to Durham. | 3:45 |
Karen Ferguson | What kind of community did you grow up in? Can you describe the community? | 4:03 |
Ann George Atwater | Well, at the time when I was home, all of our roads were dirt roads, now they're paved. We lived directly in front of the Methodist church and we had to walk about, I don't know, a good three or four miles to our church, the Baptist church. Our houses were not too close together, but they were close enough if you needed to call somebody, you could call, somebody would hear you, because my daddy would send me to the store and he would holler and tell me what else he forgot to tell me to bring home, and we could hear him all the way down there. He's just hollering and tell—He'd call the next door neighbor, because we didn't have telephones, he'd holler, "Good morning." They'd holler back, "Good morning," and whatever they wanted to talk about. Sometimes it looked like to me—It was about from here to the end of the street or maybe further, and they would hold normal conversations rather where people now run in the house and get on the phone, they didn't bother with no phone. | 4:09 |
Ann George Atwater | We were around the kind of people that if—My daddy had a garden and it was vegetables coming off like now and you probably had one, he would make sure—Or didn't have one, he would make sure you got some veg and meat, the same way when we kill hogs, he had to make sure miss so-and-so had a morsel of fresh meat. This is the way that they grew up. We didn't do too much going to the doctor. My daddy had a bush called wormwood tea, catnip, and boneset. If you got a cold, you got some wormwood tea. But if you was aching, you got some boneset in. When a child is born, you give that child catnip tea. This is what he gave us. Then, he would cook us homemade chicken soup. If you get a cup of that chicken soup and a cup of wormwood tea, now you're supposed to be well by morning, and nine times out of ten you was, you'd have to get well not to want anymore because the wormwood's so bitter. You couldn't stand it. | 5:14 |
Karen Ferguson | Did you have other relatives who lived around you? | 6:22 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes, my aunt. Well, the area is basically kin people, a lot of kin people there, if not on my daddy's side, on my mama's side. The house facing our house on the right, my aunt, my daddy's oldest sister lived there. The house on the other side was a friend of ours, it wasn't anybody that was kin to us, but we always called kin, everybody was kin. Then, my sister lives across, behind the church, and her husband's family is around here, so like I said, everything is built up by family. | 6:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you have any particular childhood memories that you think we'd be interested in? | 7:07 |
Ann George Atwater | I don't know. I was just so mean when I was a child. See, we had to go to school a half a day and then come home and do the work in the field, I call it in the field. I can remember one of the boys at the school—all children liked to pick at other kids. I think my dad had packed us that day for lunch some cracklings and sweet potatoes, and they were picking at me for the food that I had to eat, and I knocked the boy down the steps. We had high steps going up to the schoolhouse and I knocked him down the steps. My teacher was my first cousin and she got at me, and I told her, I said, "You can't go put your hands on me." She said, "Well, I'm going to tell Uncle Will about how you act." I said, "You can tell him. He ain't going to do nothing to me." | 7:19 |
Ann George Atwater | That was the only C my whole time going to school I ever got, and it taught me a lesson, it really did. That's part of what I remember, that we just worked hard. | 8:02 |
Karen Ferguson | I have a question. How was it like growing up with—What kind of discipline did your father give you, growing up with your brothers and sisters and things like that? Who were some of your friends? | 8:18 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, now see when I come along, my father could discipline me and you if you was at my house, and we kept a batch of kids ready because they—My daddy always said, "When you cook, you put on the big pot and the little one." Now, the problem we had was with our stepmother. See my stepmother, after he married her, she didn't want us to eat as much as we wanted to eat. She wanted to allowance us out the food, and my daddy didn't like that, and this was a big problem. When we went to eat, we had to take it, either wait till she leave and go back in the door, get it, and go out to the barn or somewhere else and eat it. But see, he didn't like for us to do—He wanted us to sit down and eat all we could hold. | 8:31 |
Ann George Atwater | But with the discipline, now if we did something and we know we did it, like one time I went in and cut the pineapple cake, and when my daddy come to look for me and said, he was—All we had was beans that grew up on a stalk. I got down on the field in the row of one of them beans, and he was calling me, just walking past me. I'm just laying down there scared to breathe because I felt he would kill me. But, he would spank us and he'd whoop you, spanking, that was the sure enough whipping. If anybody else's child and they was involved, they would have to get a whipping too. The same if we went to their homes, they would do us the same way. I can remember getting under the house and staying under there just about a whole day, scared to come out. Our house was made—It didn't have underpins like people got now, it had blocks, you lay the blocks and then it sit there across—What is it? The seal on the blocks, and that's the way they made the house. | 9:12 |
Sonya Ramsey | How was it with your brothers and sisters? Did they try to discipline you? Or, how did you do your chores around—? | 10:14 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, well when I got up big enough that I thought I was grown, now they couldn't touch nothing I had and they couldn't tell me nothing to do. But my daddy, when he left home to go maybe to the store, the oldest person was in charge, the very oldest one. Say if my oldest brother was gone and the oldest sister was home, then that sister was in charge, and we had to do whatever she tell us to do or we got it when they got back. | 10:19 |
Karen Ferguson | I have one more question. What kind of attitudes about life do you think your father and your stepmother and mother instilled in you? | 10:48 |
Ann George Atwater | My daddy always said, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." That was his holy word all the time. See, my father was a deacon at the church. On Sunday mornings, he would get up, and if we missed breakfast to have prayer, we didn't eat any breakfast, we had gone to church with no breakfast. But, that's what he always told us. He also said, "Obedience is better than sacrifice." If you obey, you get it. He said, "That if you do what's right, then right will follow you. If you do wrong, wrong will follow you." I think that's why I've been sick a lot, because like I told you, I was so mean, and God gave me an opportunity to get it all cleared up. | 10:55 |
Sonya Ramsey | I have a question. | 11:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Well, I thought maybe we'd go to school. | 11:47 |
Sonya Ramsey | Okay. | 11:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Can we talk a little bit about your school? | 11:49 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes. | 11:50 |
Karen Ferguson | What school did you attend? | 11:51 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, I attended—Well, it was Hallsboro Elementary School at that time. I went as far—I was promoted to the 10th grade when I stopped school. But we had to go, and like I said, that C that I got on my conduct was the only C that I got the whole time I went to school. My sisters and brothers, they was—I'm the baby of nine, I forgot to say that. When they would get their homework, I would always be around listening to them, going over their homework, which made it easier for me to catch on and learn. That's the way I did. When my sisters and brothers was learning how to speak French, oh man, I was right in there with them, but I can't speak it now, that left. When I quit school, all that left, so I can't speak any of that. | 11:52 |
Karen Ferguson | You said you only attended for half a day and then you went home to do the chores. Did the other children do that as well? | 12:42 |
Ann George Atwater | All of the children in the family had to stop. See, when you clean up the field, my brother would go along with the bush ax and cut the—I'm using the corn field, we would cut the cornstalks down and we would come along, pick them up, and then pile them up. Then, late in the evening, my daddy went around the place and then we'd burn them. That's the way we cleaned up. Now they got the tractor and things, now they tractor the stem in, and you don't have all that hard work to do. Then, we had chopping—When the corn come up, you have to weed it out, thin it out. We had to come home and work and make sure we got it done and stay in school at the same time, and that's the way, so we could make it. | 12:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Was the school open for nine months or was it open all year long? | 13:33 |
Ann George Atwater | No, it wasn't all year long. It had to be about nine months, like it is now. | 13:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Were you ever disciplined by your teachers at all, other than—? | 13:42 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes. I accept whatever they told me or they put me down for, they make you be in timeout and you would get—Like I said, if it was spelling time, if I act up, then I didn't get to spell. I can remember one time, my daddy raised my two nephews, and the teacher called him and told him that my nephew had took his car keys. My daddy come home and asked him, "Did he take the car keys?" He said, "No, pa, I didn't take the car keys." He said, "DJ took the keys." That's another little boy. Well, DJ's father asked him and DJ said, "No, Ernest had them." I thought my daddy would never get to beating Ernest, never get through. | 13:53 |
Ann George Atwater | My daddy went down to the house to DJ's house, and then daddy went out to the crib where DJ would never leave the crib, and when they go up in the crib, there was the man's keys down there. Then, my daddy turned around and he whipped DJ for lying right in front of his daddy. You could have heard him uptown, he's like—we were real real loud. You could have heard him uptown, "You accused my child," and he went on. He carried the keys back to the teacher and he laid the teacher out, because the teacher should have looked, he figured. School was—I loved going because that gave me a chance to get on—See, we didn't have a swing in our yard, but there was a swing at school. We could swing, jump rope, and play. Then, when that was over, we come home because we know we had to work. | 14:39 |
Ann George Atwater | Well, we would wash up every morning in the basin, we had a basin, but we took a tub bath once week because—That would be in the tin tub. People take tub baths every day now, but we didn't, we got it on Saturday night, getting ready for Sunday. We couldn't wear our same clothes to school that we wore to church on Sunday. | 15:30 |
Sonya Ramsey | Right. Do you have any remembrances of any special teachers that you had or any attitudes or values they taught you? | 15:54 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes. See, at that time, we didn't change classes like people do now. See, my first cousin was my teacher. She stayed there and she taught every grade, and that's the way it was. I had to be real smart because she was my cousin, I couldn't play along. She made me get down harder I think than anybody else in the class. | 16:04 |
Sonya Ramsey | Do you remember any childhood schoolmates and—? | 16:37 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes, I had a friend of mine, her name is Anna Mae Thurman, and we used to be together every day. We talked about getting married, we both were supposed to get married at the same time. We were supposed to have our children at the same time. We was going to build us a house—We wanted six children, three girls and three boys. We wanted a house with a hall down the way and rooms on each side of the hall, I don't know what all that meant. | 16:40 |
Ann George Atwater | But one thing happened, my daughter that I got and Lydia, my oldest girl. She, her baby was born the same day, May 12th, but he was born in the morning and Lydia was born in the afternoon. That's the only thing that we did together, had them two babies. | 17:09 |
Ann George Atwater | My daddy wouldn't allow—Well, they had, we call it Piccolo joints or shops now, some people call them clubs. If he let us go, he, we'd have to go, say, on Sunday evening somewhere around six o'clock or so, but by nine we had to be back home. When he started letting me take company, he would always say, "Well, it's nine o'clock," and whoever's there to see me, "It's time for you to go home. Anne, it's time for you to go to bed." He did that with all of my sisters and brothers. | 17:30 |
Sonya Ramsey | I had a question about—You said you married at 13? | 18:09 |
Ann George Atwater | I think I was 13 or 14. I think it might have been 14, it seemed like at least 14. | 18:11 |
Sonya Ramsey | What did your father think about that? | 18:16 |
Ann George Atwater | Well, my father was so mad, and so he went and got his shotgun and he set it up by the door. He went over to my husband, children's father's, house and asked him, "You got—?" See, what happened, my daddy didn't know that I got pregnant—I backed up, I had that wrong how long—I was thinking it's two years between my first child and Lydia. But, I got pregnant. He went and asked him—He carried me to the doctor and he was giving me all this wormwood tea and everything, bitter apple, everything people give you for colds and everything. I was so sick, I couldn't stop vomiting. He said, "Not my baby, I know my baby is not in family weight." | 18:17 |
Ann George Atwater | Well, the women around home told him, he said, "Well." They said, "Yes, she is. Yes, she is." He'd ask me and I said no. He finally broke down and carried me to the doctor. The doctor come back out and told him that that's what was wrong with me. He went to put the shotgun by the door and he went over to the boy's house, which he had to walk about two miles to come back to get the shotgun. But he went over there and asked him what did he plan to do? He said, "Mr. Will George, I plan to marry your daughter. I want to marry her. I want to marry her." My daddy signed us up, like I told everybody, I told him I didn't marry him, my daddy did because my daddy had to sign for me to get married. We took our blood tests and everything, but he signed for me. | 19:03 |
Ann George Atwater | I said, "That wasn't in God's plan, so that's why—" We married and we stayed together, let's see, I came up here and he left me here when I was pregnant with Marilynn, he was gone 17 years, we separated 17 years. Then, he came back and I went back with him again, and that time I divorced him. I put him out for good. I couldn't take it. | 19:49 |
Ann George Atwater | I've raised both of my children without a daddy, just the man I'm with now. We've been married 18 years, but he's been here. I wanted to put him out for seven, but the Lord showed me how we could live together. But with raising those kids, I raised them off of $57 a month. I look back now and I wonder how, that's what I was getting from the FTC was $57, how we made it. But I made it by—Back then in those days, you could get flour, sugar, and cloth bags and some of them had flowers in them. I took the bags, washed them out, and made the kids their clothes, took the white ones and made the slips out of them. | 20:17 |
Ann George Atwater | They took flour and made starch to put in the clothes. This is the way we did. For eating, we would—I stayed in a joined room to a lady. We decided that—She had two boys, and we would eat as a family together. If she was working today, then she got home, I would cook. If I was working, she would cook. But, I did all the washing, she did all the ironing because that lady could iron, I couldn't iron. But, we got along and that's how I made it. Finally, I got to work with the lady and started doing domestic work, and then she would give me her children's clothes, which I was so grateful and hand-me-downs from other people. You wouldn't know they were hand-me-downs because my children, they were new to them and their clothes was in such good shape till they looked like they were new. | 21:08 |
Ann George Atwater | I've got set out several times by not having enough money to pay my utility bill, I mean pay the rent, and lights and things cut off because I was not able to pay the utility bills. We had a rough time, but I don't know, through it all we were still happy. | 22:00 |
Sonya Ramsey | When you came to Durham with your husband for the first time, did you know people in Durham already? | 22:23 |
Ann George Atwater | No. He came to Durham with Venable Tobacco Company. See, he was already in Durham, I was in South Carolina, my brother's wife died and I went down to help him with his six children. When I came home, my brother had found a girlfriend that was real nice to her, so my daddy said, "Well, he don't need you anymore, you need to come home so you and your husband can get together." My daddy didn't believe in separation, divorces and stuff like that. He believed in getting married one time only, unless the person died. But anyway, when I come to Durham, Frenchie was already here, and he sent me a letter and a one-way ticket. I packed up everything we had, Lydia and myself had, it was in a trunk and a shopping bag. I had most of her things, like diapers, a dress or two to change her in, and then milk and a shopping bag. | 22:23 |
Ann George Atwater | We come into Durham with it. When I got to Durham, he was not at the bus station. Well, I looked at it, I just walked from one end of the street, looking, and I didn't know which way to go, so I went to the police. I asked him, I showed him the address, so he called a cab. He told the cab driver to take me to the address, and if my husband wasn't at that address, to bring me back to the bus station. But when we got there, the lady that lived at the house was there. She knew I was coming, so she told me to come on out to the cab, and they got the trunk out, my shopping bag, and the baby out and we went on the porch. First thing she told me, he was in the house with another woman, where he had been staying with her, having an affair the time I got out there. | 23:28 |
Ann George Atwater | When I went around to the house to get him, I knocked on the door and he looked out the window and saw me, he ran through the back and come back to the house and sat on the porch. Then, I went there, he took the baby and he walked the baby to the ice cream parlor right around on Roxboro Street over there, and then we talked. But the thing of it is, he had a room and in this room he shared it with another man, so me, him, and the baby had to sleep in the same bed. I had to be the first person to go to bed and the last one to get up, I don't care what happened, because the other man—I didn't want to have my night clothes on in front of the other man. That's the way we stayed for a long time. | 24:15 |
Sonya Ramsey | What did you think of Durham? Did you like it? | 25:02 |
Ann George Atwater | I didn't want no parts of Durham, but my daddy told me to just hang out, stay on your things, it'll be better. I was trying to obey him, and I didn't really want to go home because sometimes you run your mouth too much and I was talking about what big plans I had, what I was going to do, and couldn't do none of it. I didn't want nobody to know that I had got that bad of shape, to come right back home, I was in worse enough before I left. But, I hung on in here and stayed here. | 25:04 |
Sonya Ramsey | With your little child, how did you manage childcare? Did you have to go out and find a job and things like that? | 25:35 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, what I did, like I told you, I went to the police. Some of the neighbors told me—Well, what I did when we stayed together in this room, I would go to church at night in Jesus's house of prayer, and I would sit there, pray, and just ask big God to give me something, a better place to stay. I'd come back home, and I'd cry, and cry, and cry, and the lady would talk to. Finally, I looked in the paper, and she wanted somebody to come clean her house. Well, at that time, people at my home was making 30 cents an hour, $3 a day for working in the field. She asked me, she said, "How much do you charge?" I said, "30 cents an hour, $3 a day." That's what that lady paid me, but I didn't know at that time they was making 50 cents an hour. | 25:40 |
Ann George Atwater | But I took it, and I was able to buy milk for my little girl and help pay the lady enough money that she moved us out of that room into a room there wasn't anybody sleeping in but me and them, but it was the dining room where you eat, she had us a bed in there. We finally made—I told him that he would have to get out and find us another place to stay, and he didn't want to do it. One night when I came home from church, the lady there was telling him that I was seeing somebody else, and no soon as I opened the door, he struck me. The lady had an ax down by the door, and when I grabbed the ax, he ran. When he ran, I threw the ax at him, and then I took off downtown, I ran downtown. I didn't think about the baby, I just ran myself and took out a warrant on him, and I lost shoes I had on running. I didn't care nothing about the shoes, all I was trying to do was get to safety and get away from him. | 26:34 |
Ann George Atwater | I said, "He drug me this far for nothing, he wasn't going to beat on me too for nothing." I went on and kept working for the lady, and then I decided that I would get my own room. I got my own room and we was using coal, so he was delivering coal. I'm needing a bag of coal, and he was the man, so I didn't know that was him because I never would've bought the coal, so he brought the coal in there. He told the man driving truck to go head on, he found his baby and his wife. We stayed there until I got pregnant with Marilynn, and then he took off, went to Marlboro, Maryland. He wrote me and asked me to come, then I wouldn't come, so I stayed right here. I stayed with a lady, a room with another lady until she told me that—Well, she told the man at Christian Howard that I ought to keep my child out of her room when in fact she would call, and for that, he let me have some used furniture. I started off housekeeping from that point. | 27:33 |
Ann George Atwater | My house rent was $6 a week, and that's what I paid. But then, I had a furniture bill, so I couldn't make it to work so I called my brother and I asked him what he thought I ought to do was pay the furniture bill or pay the rent. He said, "Pay the furniture bill, and I'm going to send you the $18 for the rent." He never sent it, so they sent my stuff out for as much as $18. Then, I decided that I would scrap up and start over again, and that's what I did. I always penny pinched. I didn't sell liquor, I didn't drink liquor, I didn't sell my body or nothing to make it. I worked hard and I made what the children had. After Marilynn came, I just made her, because Marilynn had—I think Lydia had one dozen diapers, Marilynn had two, and that's what I carried to the babysitter was two dozen diapers. I took some old raggedy sheets, where I worked the people gave me, and I made homemade diapers out of those, because we didn't have Pampers then. | 28:35 |
Ann George Atwater | They might have had it, I didn't know nothing about it, and so that's what we did. I kept leaning on the Lord, kept praying and talking to the Lord. | 29:41 |
Sonya Ramsey | Well, I was just going to ask you, you said that you didn't ever sell your body, you never took any of those kind of choices to survive. Did you know people who did make those kinds of choices? | 29:45 |
Ann George Atwater | Sure I did. | 29:56 |
Sonya Ramsey | What was the difference between them making those choices and you making the choices—? | 29:58 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, I always was taught that whatever you need, ask God for it. It may not come when you want it, but it was on time. That's what I did. I did that, and I took waiting on the Lord, because I can remember one day my children having no milk or no nothing. It was a man going into a bootlegger's house right next door to me, and I called him and I asked him if he would loan me $5. I told him what I wanted with it and he said, "You got to give me $6.25 back." I said, "Well, when I get my check, I will give it back to you." The day that I got my check, on the first of the month I think—I don't if my check, if they was coming on the first. I think they was coming on the first then. I went to him to pay and he had another friend that they both went to church, and his friend was a deacon. | 30:02 |
Ann George Atwater | He said, "You see this lady ain't got no money. Why don't you give her that? You ought to give her that $6." The man gave me the $6. Well, the next week he came over to my house and he said, "You just look like such a good woman, you need somebody to help you." Well, the man started coming, he went to the grocery store and he bought my groceries. This was on Friday, and that Sunday, he took me and the kids out to the airport. I thought that was the prettiest thing, to see them big airplanes, and the children was just as excited as I was. We started talking, and we went together for 12 years. He said, "I want you to move off of this street and move into another street." I moved from Carrington Street to Fowler Avenue. He put fans in the house, because I didn't have air condition but we did have the fans. He made it just as comfortable as one could during that time. | 30:52 |
Ann George Atwater | See, I didn't have to quite spend all my $57 because he would give it to me—He would pay the milkman and he'd pay the laundry man, because I had my clothes done in damp wash and then I would hang them out. Those that I could rub on the board in the bathtub, that's the way I did it. | 31:48 |
Sonya Ramsey | You just mentioned about the role of faith in your life. Can you talk more about the role of religion in your life? | 32:06 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. I still believe strongly on the Lord. As I said, if it had not been for the Lord, I would not be where I am, even though I was so mean. I think I was mean because of the frustration that I'd had out of the men in my life that I'd gone with, them not wanting to do anything. I couldn't find a good man to save my life. Reading the Bible, sitting down and talking to God—See, I talked to God just like I'm talking to you, and then I got close and close, and then I joined a church here. I started working real actively in the church and I just buried myself in religious activities and things. I wouldn't go around the places, like I said, the clubs and things like that. If I had a party and some friends come and wanted to drink or something, they would have to bring whatever they wanted to drink at my house, and then my children would be in the back in their room with the door shut. | 32:13 |
Ann George Atwater | Then, when they asked to come out, then my company would have to go, those that were doing the drinking and all. I never had that fighting and clowning. Now, I have fussed with my first husband, we fought, but it wasn't around the children. It'd be night, he'd be out, and I'd be fool enough to go out looking for him. See, God took care of me through that, and I always thank him for it. Then, I got down sad. I've been just about what you might say dead twice. My heart stopped beating for four minutes one time and five minutes another time, and God brought me back. I promised Him that I would do the best I could living for Him the rest of my life. That's why I may get down today—The last week in April, I was in the hospital. | 33:20 |
Ann George Atwater | I had set up the program to honor our pastor with the Durham Committee on Affairs of Black People. I couldn't make it, because my legs swelled up that Tuesday and the thing was on Friday, and I couldn't make it. But, I kept talking to God. The doctor said he was going to have to take this leg off, but I still got it. See, I knew God would come, not when I wanted Him, because He didn't come right then, because my leg was hurting, I wanted Him then, but He waited and then my legs and thing went down. The doctor was amazed today of how good they're down. | 34:06 |
Sonya Ramsey | You mentioned earlier, growing up that you went to Baptist church, did you continue with that denomination? | 34:36 |
Ann George Atwater | No, I'm with United. I came here and I would have been, but I went to White Rock Baptist Church. White Rock is—I call it the ditty church, the folks are supposed to be upper middle class folks. I always said, "God has no respected person." At our church at home, when the preacher is preaching and you witnessing, you say "Amen!" and a "Hallelujah!" whatever you feel like saying, so I would say "Amen!" you know, holler out real loud, and everybody in church would turn around to see what that noise was coming out. I made so much noise, so they came to me and told me that I was, I believe they said in Ward Four, and Ward Four don't come to church in the day, Sunday morning, they came Sunday afternoon. They got Mrs. Nellie Hunter, a lady lived right behind me, to be my leader, because she go to church at night. The reason she went to church at night was because she drank a lot of liquor, her boys and they'd clown, and that type of person, nobody didn't see them, that's the kind. | 34:41 |
Ann George Atwater | There was another lady there that had a house full of children. She was about in the same predicament I was in, because the children just didn't have as many clothes as mine and she lived in what we call one of them shotgun houses too. But, her hair was real, real short. | 35:46 |
Ann George Atwater | Who are these two ladies coming up here? I don't know who they are, I wasn't expecting them, they didn't tell me they was coming. | 36:05 |
Ann George Atwater | Anyhow, this lady, they told her to wait and come in the afternoon. I said, "Uh-huh, God, they wouldn't have us like this." I laid them out in the church and got up and walked out. Then, I went to Mount Calvary. | 36:14 |
Ann George Atwater | (doorbell rings) Come in. [INTERRUPTION 00:36:28] | 36:28 |
Karen Ferguson | You were talking about going to Mount Calvary. | 36:32 |
Ann George Atwater | Oh yes. I start over to Mount Calvary—Well, I met Mary Bailey and Mrs. Bailey said, "Anne," said, "Come on, go to church with me." She said, "I believe you'd like it." I went over there the first Sunday and I said, "This church, they do just about what we do at our church at home." I went back the next Sunday and I went the next Sunday, so the next month I joined the church. | 36:34 |
Karen Ferguson | What kind of church is that? | 36:58 |
Ann George Atwater | That was the United Church of Christ, Mount Calvary. It used to be Mount Calvary Christian Church, and since that time we've come together as United, changed the name to Mount Calvary United Church of Christ. That denomination is made up of all churches—It's in that denomination. Well, I started singing on the choir and that just lifted me up. From the choir, I worked with the women. Now I'm a deacon of my church and I'm in charge of all the women. I went to Sunday school, we had to go to Sunday school, that's something—That's the other thing about being with the Lord. We would have to go to Sunday school and my daddy would ask us, "What was the Sunday school lesson all about?" We had to memorize it. When the preacher got up to preach, he didn't ask us to remember the sermon, just his texts and where he took it from, then he would sit down and the Bible and have us to read it, so we would understand what it was that we were doing. | 36:59 |
Ann George Atwater | If we couldn't, we'd get it, he said we'd sleep, playing in the church, or whatever, and we could not let children not talk and get up and go out, they wouldn't let us do that. I taught my children the same way. When you go to church, before you go in church service, you go to the bathroom, get your drink of water. Now, that should hold you one hour, because I fed you before you left home so you're not hungry. This is the way I do them now. People say, "Well, let them alone, let them talk. They're just cheering." This ain't nowhere to talk, they got to learn. That's the way I was and that's the way I am with—Now I have two grandchildren, my daughter's children. I don't know if you want to hear about them. | 38:02 |
Karen Ferguson | What neighborhood did you live in when you first came to Durham? | 38:40 |
Ann George Atwater | When I came to Durham, I lived over—Let me see what you would call it. You know where American Tobacco Company is now? | 38:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. | 38:54 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, downside that road there's a road—Well no, I was in North Durham on Canal Street. That's where I first come when I first came with my husband. I mean, I got it with him, that's where he was, on Canal. Then, I moved from there to Carrington Street, which is more or less kind of like uptown. | 38:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Were there any big differences between coming from the countryside to the city? Did you—? | 39:14 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes, because nobody had any gardens up here. You had to buy your food, and you see there we grew our food. | 39:20 |
Sonya Ramsey | You talked about White Rock and the people that went there. What did you think about—Do you think Black people got along pretty well in Durham with different classes and things like that or what—? | 39:31 |
Ann George Atwater | Well, yes and no. If poor folks stayed together over here, they were fine. Now, but if they went over here where the middle class folks are, they were counted, "What's she doing over here? I wouldn't want her by me." This is the kind of thing that they'll do. They still do it. They still do it. I'm right now third vice chair of the Durham Committee on the Affairs of Black People. I'm the poorest person in there, and I'm pretty sure I'm the fattest one in there. Unless I raise my voice, go to hollering and whooping about something, you can say something, they'll just carry it right on. I can say something and they'll say, "Well, we'll go right on to the next one," or something like that. I don't know whether they intend for it to be, but it is. | 39:44 |
Ann George Atwater | Now, one of the ladies there one night, she said—They called on me, we're getting ready to—The city was put out, Trevor Hampton, our chief, and they called on me. I had been in home, they acted just like I had died, and that's what my job was for 30 years, organizing the community here in Durham, fussing, getting things straight and going in these places, straightening these folks out. Well, it looked like for a long time they forgot I was doing that. When they didn't have nobody to really get up and charge the folks, to get the folks ready to do something, they called on me. I said, "All right, I'll go in. I'll let them have a piece of my mind," and that's what I did. | 40:34 |
Ann George Atwater | I preached a whole sermon, and everybody was talking about how good it was. At this meeting, this lady said, "We got to stop acting like we Black, we got to act like we're Colored." I got my bag and I come out of there, I couldn't take it. I just couldn't take it. She asked me why did I leave, and I told her exactly. | 41:16 |
Sonya Ramsey | Going back, was it different? I guess we need to get into a little bit about the courage that you had to become a community organizer. | 41:44 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. All right. Remember that I am skipping about, because I can't remember everything down the line so I'm skipping about. That's why I said you need to ask me question so it can refresh my memory. When the way I got started, I was living on Fowler Avenue in another one of these houses. Now, this is my story. I usually tell everybody, "That's the only house that speaks to the people." It was bent over, the house was bent over. This particular house, I wish I could've kept it, I wish they'd have gave it—Just give it to me. | 41:53 |
Ann George Atwater | You could see, I didn't have to come outdoors, open the door to see who was going up the street or what was going on, I could just look through the crack and see. The house was a three-room house. The house was in such bad condition that when the man cut my lights off, I could stomp on the floor and the lights would come on. In the morning, I'd go to work, I'd stomp on the floor and they'd go off until I come home in the evening. I mean, it was really bad. The toilet in the bathroom was on the—You had to go out the front door, down around the side on the porch, that's where the bathroom was. If I didn't manage to take a string and put it on the door while I'm on the john, anybody coming by the street could see me on the john, or the children on the john. | 42:32 |
Ann George Atwater | The floor fell in with me in there one day and the tub set up like that and the water was shooting up, my children said, "That's Niagara Falls." They loved to play in it, especially in the summertime because that was Niagara Falls. That particular house, I got behind in my rent, it's something like about $100. It seems that I stayed behind in my bills, and I did rob Peter to pay Paul. I just didn't make enough to cover all my bills at one time, and that's why I stayed in the predicament that I did. The man come by the name of Howard Fuller and a lady by the name of [indistinct 00:43:58] Hedgepeth, they were—The North Carolina Fund gave them a grant to organize the neighborhoods and fight the war in poverty. | 43:21 |
Sonya Ramsey | Excuse me, what year was this? | 44:06 |
Ann George Atwater | This was in '62, '63, somewhere getting close to '64. | 44:08 |
Ann George Atwater | When they was asking us about our problem, they said, "Well, if you come to the meeting on Philmont Avenue, we would," it was Pickett Street at that time. She said, "We would show you how you can help yourself." I said, "Can't nobody help me and let me help myself." I said, "I don't believe them." They said, "Well, if you don't believe me, come on." I went down there that night to the meeting, took the children, and I was telling them about how raggedy my house was and how much I was behind, he wouldn't let me wait, and I only had one day a week work. He said, "Well, I tell you what, if you work with us, we'll see that you get your house fixed." I said, "I don't want nothing fixed but my bathroom floor." He said, "We'll see to it your bathroom floor get fixed." I said, "God, that man with all that can do all of that." I said, "That man ain't going to let him do it." One of our leading people in the House of Representatives now, his father was the owner of this house. | 44:18 |
Ann George Atwater | We went around there and they talked to him. He said, "Well, we raised your money." He said, "Now, we're not going to pay you till you come and fix that house." They come and fix the tub up, put some boards on the tub and set it up straight, and put a latch on the outside of the door rather than one on the inside, so fix the door where I could shut the door. You still had to have a string to hold it together when you were in there, but when you come out, you could hook it. That's what started me. After I found out I could go down there and talk with that man, he changed his mind about—Waiting for me to get—He was waiting for them, but they had the money. But anyway, he was willing to wait and work it out, go ahead and work the house out. When I found out you could hold your rent money to get something done, I started hitting his dirt. | 45:17 |
Ann George Atwater | I started going out there, telling everybody, I quit every job I had. I didn't know whether me and my children would eat the next day, whether I'd get put out, it didn't bother me. I said, "God, you sent them. You sent this to me and I'm going to work it." I said, "God, thank you for teaching me how to be able to reach out." I started reaching out, touching at that point, and I've been going strong ever since. | 46:08 |
Karen Ferguson | Can you think of any other things from your past, from your childhood, that gave you the courage and the belief in yourself to be able to do that as well? | 46:33 |
Ann George Atwater | Well, I think— | 46:45 |
Ann George Atwater | It may not been quite as long as yours, but it was long. My daddy went and bought a straightening comb and the curlers. He didn't think to buy grease like we buy. Along then, they was using a lot of hair grease more lean, and so he didn't get any hair grease. He told us to go in there and use the lard. He would dip us out some lard and put it out and that's what we put in our hair. I would take the straightening comb, and I could pretty much get my hair pretty straight but I couldn't make them curlers curl it. Every time I would take a piece of hair and put the curlers in it and it wouldn't curl. I'd, the scissors and cut it off. I said, "That's dead hair." Hair ain't no good until I had my hair just picked up all over. It really looked real bad. But at that time, I thought I was looking good 'cause I ain't know no difference. | 0:02 |
Sonya Ramsey | How old were you [indistinct 00:00:56]. | 0:55 |
Ann George Atwater | I imagine somewhere about eight or nine, somewhere in there, 'cause my mama died when I was six. We tried to take care of ourselves and having to do and not—'cause we learned that if you try to depend on somebody, then when my stepmom came and I thought this was going to be some help for us, 'cause even when my period started, she didn't even tell me nothing. I didn't know nothing, nothing. I stayed in the bed all day long, wouldn't go to school, wouldn't get up. Then my sister came over to the house and she wanted to know why I wouldn't get up, and then I told her. Then she told me and that's how I found out about that. So it's just learning, I guess, just still learning, taking care of yourself and knowing that you've got to be the one to take care of yourself. You can't depend on the other fella. Now you hear me talk a lot of time and I do down White folks. I down them because I learned that how they were treating us. I'm not downing you, but I'm just telling you the facts. | 0:56 |
Sonya Ramsey | I understand. | 2:05 |
Ann George Atwater | But I have had to depend on White folks for some of my livelihood. It's a White woman now in Durham, I call her my mother. She has been like a mother to me. She knows when I get up and say White folks, she knows where I'm coming from. To get bread on my table sometime, she would have to put it on there. I'd go to Black people and they would turn the backs on me. Now coming along, still working in the struggle, we had what we call the AFL-CIO gave a grant and they was trying to save the schools, with segregation, both get together. The White folks were moving their kids out. So we tried to find out what we could do to try to stop it. Everybody come together. We had what we call, they call it a charrette, but it's a 10-day meeting. | 2:08 |
Ann George Atwater | At the meetings we were having before we decided to have a charrette, there was a guy there by the name of C.P. Ellis. C.P. was a Klans. He was the head man in the Klans. Here I was just a ordinary girl from the development, they called it. I never stayed in the project, but this is what they'd always say. So C.P. and I would argue. He would call, "Them niggers this and them niggers that." I would get up and say, "Them crackers, this and them crackers that." The night that we started to have the charrette, C.P. said that it was a Black and White issue. He wanted it to be Black and White. | 3:05 |
Ann George Atwater | I said, "Well, I tell you what, if you let us work this problem out about the school system and when we finish in 10 days, if you still want it to be a Black and White issue, I will make it a Black and White issue." He sat down, and he didn't want to sit down, but he sat down and ate dinner. They'd pay for our dinner. We started off from that. Then C.P. displayed all the Klans material. The little boys about, I reckon 11, 12, 13, 'cause see, we were organizing all of the kids. Any little child could come in here and talk to you like they knew you. They was going to tear all this stuff down, and I told them, "No." I said, "Read what it says and you can peep his whole card." When he saw me save his material, he said he turned. That's when he started that Black folks were different. I worked with that real hard. But one thing about me, when I got my CAT training, this is way back, under Howard Fuller, I had a 17 weeks training. | 3:48 |
Sonya Ramsey | CAT? What is that? | 4:53 |
Ann George Atwater | Cat. Cat. C-A-T. | 4:54 |
Sonya Ramsey | What is that? | 4:55 |
Ann George Atwater | That community action technician, that's training. That's what I had. That's the one with that streaks on it up there. He taught me. See, at that time, he trained us and he said, "Whatever you know is right and you believe in it, stick to it. Don't let nobody change you," and I did in the meeting. He gave me charge as a supervisor, and charges, told me to go out and fire one of the ladies that work at the Housing Authority. Well, first thing I did was set a picket line out there, which is the wrongest thing in the world to do. But at that time, I thought because she told me to do it, I had to do what my supervisor said, so that's why I did it. | 4:55 |
Ann George Atwater | Come to find out I wasn't supposed to do what she said at all because I knew that was wrong. I was supposed to tell her that that's the wrong thing to do. "You do it 1, 2, 3, and this is the way you did it." After I got that in my head that whatever you believed in, you stick to it. It stayed in there. It ain't out yet. I don't care if I have to knock somebody down, I knock them down. If I believe it might be wrong, but if I think it's right, I'm going to hang in there until I see that it's wrong. Then if I find out that I'm wrong, I will come back and apologize, and that's where I got it from, starting way back there then. | 5:38 |
Sonya Ramsey | Could you just talk a little bit about your training? What did you do on your training? | 6:20 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. Like I said, it's a long time ago. When we had that training, they taught us everything. They taught us how to write proposals, how to write letters, how to sit correctly, how to talk correctly; when you go out, how to sell yourself, in other words is what I'm saying. They taught us, some of them how to type, taught some of us how to sew. I never learned how to get both hands on the typewriter. I could always get one up there, but I could never get two. I learned how to sew a little bit. But everything that people do now we were taught about it, and we had it down so pat in 17 weeks that they wasn't afraid to send us anywhere. I've been somewhere everywhere. I've been in Washington organizing. I've been in Asheville organizing. I went to Asheville and the housing authority, the executive director (phone rings) cut you back. | 6:25 |
Sonya Ramsey | Did you want to go? | 7:31 |
Karen Ferguson | No, no. | 7:31 |
Sonya Ramsey | Maybe let finish up with my— | 7:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 7:33 |
Sonya Ramsey | I wanted to ask you, were there more women during the training or more men? | 7:33 |
Ann George Atwater | Yeah. Yeah. I forget, people from all over the different counties in North Carolina came together, and we had this training. See, North Carolina Fund gave us the money to have this training bid. My baby was housing, and I learned everything there was; how many nails it take to build a house, how many bricks, all that stuff. You could ask me then and I could tell you what to do. I could crawl under the house and inspect it just like the inspector. I could do all of that. I can't get under a house now. | 7:38 |
Sonya Ramsey | You said there were more women, why do you think there were more women that participated in the project? | 8:09 |
Ann George Atwater | Because all our men see, it just hadn't started. Most our men see, in jail and they pick them up and put them in jail and they been there for a while. So that's why the women out here left to defend by themselves. That's why there's so much crime about men and women fighting women over a man. There ain't enough men right out of here to go around. I'm telling you the honest truth and that's why, both now and then. | 8:14 |
Karen Ferguson | I was just wondering, would you go back again to your childhood— | 8:48 |
Ann George Atwater | Go back anywhere? | 8:51 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. I was wondering if you can remember Jim Crow signs, Colored only, White only signs? | 8:52 |
Ann George Atwater | Oh, that's all we knowed. When I grew up, you couldn't go out and go in the bathroom together. Some place, where you sold your foods, you couldn't even go in to get it, you had to stand outdoors to a window to get it. We've even had crosses burnt when I was a little girl. When you said, "Klans," everybody would run. They were scared to death. | 9:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Was there any other kind of violence that the Klans— | 9:30 |
Ann George Atwater | No they didn't have any violence per se, but I know a lady's house that they burnt. The mailman, a White man was driving the mail was our mailman. I don't know whether this Black man was working for these people or what was happening, but he saw him come out of that woman's house, so he had him hung. They hung him, put him in a tree and hung him. They sure did, and nothing was ever done about it. | 9:33 |
Sonya Ramsey | With growing up in that environment, how did you come to form a friendship with C.P. Ellis, if he could make the change— | 10:05 |
Ann George Atwater | Because I was determined that God was better than the devil, and God is stronger than the devil. That's the point that I was trying to prove with him, and it worked out that way. That's what we said to each other. I said, "We'll see whose God is the strongest." He had a machine gun in the trunk of his car and he showed it every day. I carried a little small white Bible and I showed that every day, and every day I had a different verse as a scripture that we could read. I told him, I said, "We'll see whose God is the strongest," and at the end my God was the strongest. | 10:13 |
Sonya Ramsey | I need you to give me a little bit more understanding, 'cause you talking about every day you showed your Bible, he had showed his gun. This is during this what you call the charrette? | 10:44 |
Ann George Atwater | Mm-hmm. | 10:53 |
Sonya Ramsey | Who called this meeting? Who organized this meeting— | 10:56 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. | 11:03 |
Sonya Ramsey | —and who were the people that were invited to participate in that meeting? | 11:03 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, the meeting was called, as I said, AFL-CIO. | 11:03 |
Sonya Ramsey | Okay. | 11:05 |
Ann George Atwater | They had a grant and they gave it to, I can't think of the man now to call the name of it, but the man that, I call it EMC, but that ain't the word for it, that put it together, kept it together. His name was Bill Riddick. He was a Black guy. Okay. When the AFL-CIO got together and what they was calling themselves is Save Our Schools. That was the reason for it. This is even before Women-in-Action to Prevent Violence and its Causes was organized. | 11:07 |
Sonya Ramsey | EMC? | 11:38 |
Ann George Atwater | It came after the charrette. The charrette had pulled enough people together for it to get started. But what happened when they started talking about it, when they were going around through the community trying to get people to talk about it, nobody didn't want to talk. So what they decided to do, "We got to do something to save like Hillside." See, all the White kids were going to Hillside. Their parents were moving them out, not Hillside. Durham High was moving them out and we had to have our Black kids then to go to Durham High to mix in with what's left in order for it to make it to save. Then we had to go to the library, look into the Hillside Library to see and Whitted School, it used to be Whitted School then, look in that library to see what was in there was the same material at both schools. We found out that Hillside High, when they graduated out, they had 11th grade books. Durham High had 12th grade books. | 11:39 |
Ann George Atwater | So then we fought to make those books be equal. We found in the elementary library that the kids was still reading from Mac See Muff and Muff See Mac, them books from back there when I come along. In the Black schools, the material was totally different. Then we started raising saying from that, and this is how we got these meetings started. We wanted the material first to be equal so that when our kids got there, they would get the type of education because we know we had to have it right when the White kids got over here to our Black schools, and that's how we started. We met about two or three weeks talking about that, what the problem was, trying to set it all down, get everything together. Then we started with the charrette. Now the reason that I hooked up with C.P. Ellis was because my mouth was big and I couldn't stand to see the newspaper. The newspapers never wrote anything about us good since I can remember. | 12:37 |
Ann George Atwater | I didn't go the night that they chose the co-chairman, so they picked C.P. He said yes, he would be the co-chairman. Then they asked Howard Clement and he said, no he ain't messing with no Klans. He ain't going to do that. Howard was up here. so they called me and they asked me and I told them, I said, "No." I laid there in that bed, I said, "Oh, my Lord." I said, "That paper going print in the morning, Blacks is scared of Whites. That's exactly what the headline is going be." I jumped up and called and told them that, "Yes, I'd be happy to work as a co-chairman," and that's what they put in the paper. That's how I got started with C.P. | 13:39 |
Ann George Atwater | Not in love with him and still is not in love with him, even though we get along like two peas in a pod. He'll come in when he get ready, I'll go out there when I get ready. But I'm not in love with him, 'cause I know he might turn on me any time. But we haven't had no falling out. We've been sent around places just about all over the United States together. The man right now is writing a book about us and they're supposed to be doing a TV movie about us. Warner Brothers has interviewed us for a movie. That hasn't moved too fast, so I don't know what would come out of it. | 14:22 |
Ann George Atwater | But I just believe in—see, when I'm working, my difference about you changes. I don't take my difference. I may hate your guts, but if it's a problem, if it's a job we got to do and it takes both of us to do it, why not get on in there and do the job? Then if after we finish the job, then if I want to slap somebody, then slap them. That's just the way I am and I've been that way and I can't help it. | 15:03 |
Sonya Ramsey | How did your children react to you participating in the community? | 15:28 |
Ann George Atwater | Now, I had them out there at first, but the night that they started shooting tear gas at us, marching on the street and that was real tear gas. | 15:31 |
Sonya Ramsey | This was the early '60s? | 15:40 |
Ann George Atwater | Mm-hmm. I grabbed a cab, stuck my kids in and sent them home and I didn't put them back out there no more. But I talked to them and let them know that I would be all right, and this is something I had to do so that the kind of life I had, they would have a better life, and this is what I did. I was the first Black vice chairman of the Democratic Party here in Durham and one of our outstanding ladies had a spell of sickness. One of my outstanding ladies put a bunch of money in and paid for her slot to be able to get that spot. I said, "That's fine, but it don't stop me." | 15:43 |
Ann George Atwater | I have been paid less on my job that God gave me the vision of going back, working with the tenants to help them to understand the policies, 'cause every time you read the paper, they were arguing with the authority about one thing and another. There was four or five set out over here and four or five set out over there, and I wanted to know why people couldn't be heard. So when I went to the job, they paid me $8,000 a year. I thought there was some good money 'cause I hadn't made none in a long time. I stayed in that. They paid me that right on. That was part-time. But I went into full-time, they continued to pay me that. | 16:22 |
Ann George Atwater | It wasn't a long time after that that they decided to move my salary up a little bit, but it wasn't for the money, it was for the help of my people. I felt that my people needed me. I missed an opportunity to go to college. George Esser of The North Carolina Fund was going to pay for my house, pay for my schooling, pay for everything, and I turned it down. They gave me a job at New York University in New York. I turned it down 'cause I couldn't live in New York 'cause I went up there to look at the place I was going to stay, and I saw a man beat a dog down and would go in and rob lady's apartment and my apartment was right beside that. I said, "Never would I come on find my two children laying out here in the street." I give it up. I couldn't take that kind of thing. | 17:01 |
Sonya Ramsey | What time period was this? | 17:47 |
Ann George Atwater | Now, this was in the '60s. All this was happening to me in the '60s. In the '70s is when, well I started working for Durham Housing Authority in '71 and then I got a batch of sickness. Then I didn't go back out to work until '81. I got on disability after that, but I never stopped working. Even though I couldn't get out. The folks would call me and they still do it now and for different things to do. Every dime I get, I should hold it for myself. But when the children come to me needing certain things and the parents I feel that's not able to give them, I give them some work to do here to give them my money. They ain't going to stay two hours, but they'll come in and I give them the money to try to keep them off the street. | 17:49 |
Ann George Atwater | Now my house is used for, I call it the clearing house. When people have problems, everybody in this neighborhood, across town, anywhere, call out here or come out here. The police has my number. I have the police number. If something goes on wrong, I can call in, and everybody knows that I will put them in jail if I catch them doing something, and that's just the life I live. I try to live what I talk about and I'm just a broke person. But that don't bother me being broke, 'cause like I told them when they gave me all of the awards I got about, I reckon over 200 and some. But there wasn't any money that come along with them, and I was glad to be recognized. Like I said, I wasn't in it for the money, but I was in it because I felt like this was something that somebody needed to be in. I talked to the students last night from Chapel Hill. They were talking about the cultural center. | 18:41 |
Sonya Ramsey | Oh, okay. | 19:40 |
Ann George Atwater | Now, I think it's great. I truly think it's great. But now, if they got the money, I asked them, I think they should build the culture center wherever they can build it, but design it like they want it. They don't want to build it, they got a certain place they want to put it and they got to have it at that place. But by the time they get them to vote, yes you can have it there, all the people that donate money is going to be pulled out and gone. So I'm saying use this bird while in hand and go on and do it. They got it saying that they can have it. They want to give it to them on one. I don't say nothing wrong to getting an architect taking them folks money and doing it, let them pay it. | 19:41 |
Ann George Atwater | But they can't see that, and that's what I was trying to tell them last night. I also told them that they can't do it by themselves. See, they got to hook up with all of the universities and pull them all together and they're outnumbered by White that's supporting that effort now that Black folks still haven't come alive. But when it's built, every Black person, "Look what we done," and ain't done nothing. Then I'd have to go back and apologize to the White folk for saying that they weren't in there for nothing. See, 'cause that's what I'm saying, they just did to see what's going on, probably carry news back, but I'm going to have to apologize for that. I know I will if I'm still alive. | 20:30 |
Karen Ferguson | I just had one last question now about the age of segregation when you were growing up. Were you taught about White people when you were growing up? Did you have any White playmates— | 21:09 |
Ann George Atwater | No, I didn't have— | 21:26 |
Karen Ferguson | —or did you have any association with White people? | 21:26 |
Ann George Atwater | Like I said, on the farm, the only way we played with White children was we went to their farm to work, and those little kids was out there with us come in the field with us. But you couldn't touch them and the men in there couldn't hardly look at them as far as that go. We believed that White folk were better than we were, and this is what we really believed. | 21:31 |
Sonya Ramsey | What were the things that made you believe that, though? | 21:54 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, because sometimes, well say for instance, fruit. I'm going to use that. We could get fruit only at Christmas. They got fruit through the week. The only thing we had that they had at the same time was watermelons. They would tell us we were good enough to spitting watermelon seeds, and this is the thing that they labeled on us back there then. They would always give you whatever they didn't want. They never would say, "Let me buy you something, give you something new," and these are the kinds of things. | 21:58 |
Karen Ferguson | What made that attitude change? | 22:38 |
Ann George Atwater | Because like I said, when I got in my CAT training and found out that everybody is somebody who has a right, the person has a right. Also, about the taxes that our tax monies, that's our family's tax money that is what making this system roll, and we need a part of it, and that's what make us. I went in there and stole the manual out the Department of Social Service building to find out all the facts, 'cause see at one time, Black folks didn't have a little booth to go in. They stood out in the hall, like we in here, and they would holler from over there, ask you all about your business. You had to tell it in front of everybody. | 22:41 |
Ann George Atwater | So we had to get out there and march to make them give them a little booth to put the people could go in. Nobody had the nerve to steal that manual but me, and I went in there and stole it, 'cause I was the supervisor of eight neighborhood workers. I had to find out the answers to what the people wanted to hear on the street. So I stole it and xeroxed it and carried it back. I carried it back under my coat just like I brought it out. I had a group of people to go in and raise some saying about some problem they were having, they were just cussing and a carrying on while I was placing it back. While I was taking it, they did the same thing. | 23:20 |
Sonya Ramsey | So how did you get selected for the CAT training? | 23:56 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. As I told you, when Howard would come by and asked to help me with my house, then I didn't stop. I didn't let up, and he found out we got a good worker. You had to be a good worker, dedicated, want to go, and some days going without eating and stuff like that, 'cause you didn't have it, you couldn't eat, and just giving up and taking whatever people gave you to make it. Just like I'd buy flour, I know that we not getting any more flour, so I'd buy a 25-pound bag and I could take flour and a fatback meat and put the flour in the grease and make a little gravy and cook up some biscuits, and man, had one of the best suppers you ever had, sopping gravy eating fatback. I either cook in rice and taking the gravy, putting over rice and then take a cabbage and the fatback and leave the rice off and then put it together for the next day to make the thing stretch. This is the way we made it. | 23:59 |
Karen Ferguson | I don't have anything. | 24:56 |
Sonya Ramsey | Do you have anything else? Okay, | 24:56 |
Karen Ferguson | We have to go through a little form, some forms here. We just have to get some biographical information so that when people are using this tape, they can keep all the names straight and everything else. So could I get your full name? | 25:12 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. My full name is Ann Atwater. Let me tell you about the Atwater part and then, my name is really Ann George. I was born a George. | 25:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 25:35 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. Then I married a Wilson. When me and him separated and got divorced, I couldn't get any credit. So I was dating a guy and his last name was Atwater, so I used his last name, even though I had left—you know, we had broken up. So that's how I got Atwater. So my name is Ann George Wilson Atwater Pettiford. I'm a Pettiford now. | 25:36 |
Sonya Ramsey | Oh, okay. | 25:59 |
Karen Ferguson | So what would you like to be known as on— | 26:00 |
Ann George Atwater | Ann Atwater. | 26:06 |
Karen Ferguson | Ann Atwater. Okay. Okay. Could you give me your date of birth again? | 26:08 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay, July 1, 1935. | 26:16 |
Karen Ferguson | Place of birth? | 26:22 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. Columbus County, Hallsboro, North Carolina. | 26:23 |
Karen Ferguson | You're married right now? | 26:31 |
Ann George Atwater | Yes. | 26:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Who was your first husband's name? | 26:34 |
Ann George Atwater | French Elbert Wilson. | 26:35 |
Karen Ferguson | French? | 26:37 |
Ann George Atwater | Mm-hmm. | 26:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 26:38 |
Ann George Atwater | E-L-B-E-R-T. | 26:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Your husband now, his name? | 26:43 |
Ann George Atwater | Willie Pettiford. | 26:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Willie, how do you spell his last name? | 26:50 |
Ann George Atwater | P-E-T-T-I-F-O-R-D. | 26:53 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember your first husband's date of birth? | 26:54 |
Ann George Atwater | He was five years older than I am, but he was born June the 23rd. | 27:12 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 27:16 |
Sonya Ramsey | [indistinct 00:27:20] details of like [indistinct 00:27:22]. | 27:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah, it's okay. Is he alive still? | 27:22 |
Ann George Atwater | I don't know where he is. | 27:24 |
Karen Ferguson | You don't know— | 27:24 |
Ann George Atwater | I think he's dead. | 27:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 27:29 |
Ann George Atwater | I hope so. No, I don't really hope that. | 27:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Mr. Pettiford, do you know his birthdate? | 27:32 |
Ann George Atwater | Yeah, he was born September 11th in '27. | 27:35 |
Karen Ferguson | Ms. Atwater, do you mind if I take a snapshot of you while we— | 27:43 |
Ann George Atwater | No, take all you want. You want me to comb my hair and put on makeup or something? | 27:44 |
Sonya Ramsey | Oh, no. This is a candid shot. [indistinct 00:27:54] | 27:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Just pretend— | 27:49 |
Ann George Atwater | I'll be happy to make up for you. | 27:54 |
Sonya Ramsey | Oh no, that's fine [crosstalk 00:27:58]. | 27:56 |
Ann George Atwater | One guy came by and he wanted to take a picture of me. When he came, I knew he was coming, but he come early. He come right in and I had my house coat on, my robe on. He said, "You're fine," then he wanted my picture. "Not in my robe you won't carry it away from here," so he didn't take my picture. I don't take good pictures you looking straight at me. No, I don't. | 27:59 |
Karen Ferguson | I'll just keep asking you the questions. | 28:18 |
Ann George Atwater | Yeah, go ahead. | 28:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Your first husband, was he born in Columbus County too? | 28:21 |
Ann George Atwater | No, he was born in South Carolina. | 28:25 |
Karen Ferguson | South Carolina. Okay. | 28:26 |
Ann George Atwater | Nichols, South Carolina, I think. | 28:28 |
Karen Ferguson | What is that again? | 28:31 |
Ann George Atwater | Nichols. | 28:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, and Mr. Pettiford? | 28:32 |
Ann George Atwater | He was born in Franklin County. | 28:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 28:48 |
Ann George Atwater | I'm supposed to say "pig feet" when you take pictures. (all laughing) | 28:49 |
Karen Ferguson | What was your mother's name. | 28:53 |
Ann George Atwater | Emma Jane. She was a Shaw before she married. | 28:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 28:58 |
Ann George Atwater | But then she's Emma Jane George now, Shaw George. | 28:59 |
Karen Ferguson | What was her maiden name again? | 29:03 |
Ann George Atwater | Shaw. | 29:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Shaw. | 29:05 |
Ann George Atwater | Mm-hmm. | 29:05 |
Karen Ferguson | Her date of birth, do you know that? | 29:07 |
Ann George Atwater | No, I don't. | 29:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 29:10 |
Ann George Atwater | Oh Lord. If you want to cut, let me call my sister. | 29:13 |
Karen Ferguson | No, that's fine. If I can't get these dates, that's all right. Do you remember when she passed on? | 29:17 |
Ann George Atwater | Now, I was six-year-old, so I don't know what year that was. Then my daddy, I was 19 when he died. | 29:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Where was your mother born? | 29:34 |
Ann George Atwater | She was born in Clarkton, North Carolina. | 29:38 |
Sonya Ramsey | What part of North Carolina is that in— | 29:41 |
Ann George Atwater | Huh? | 29:44 |
Sonya Ramsey | Is that the eastern or the western part? | 29:44 |
Ann George Atwater | That's southeast. | 29:45 |
Sonya Ramsey | Southeast? | 29:45 |
Ann George Atwater | Mm-hmm. | 29:45 |
Karen Ferguson | What was her job? Did she have a job or did she— | 29:49 |
Ann George Atwater | Working in the field, plowing the horses and mules and stuff— | 29:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Farming? | 29:54 |
Ann George Atwater | Farming— | 29:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 29:54 |
Ann George Atwater | —and having babies. (laughs) | 29:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Your father's name? | 29:58 |
Ann George Atwater | It was William Randolph George. His nickname is Will George. Everybody called him Will George. | 29:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Where was he born? | 30:12 |
Ann George Atwater | He was born in Hallsboro, Columbus County. | 30:13 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you spell Hallsboro? Is that— | 30:17 |
Ann George Atwater | H-A-L-L-S-B-O-R-O. | 30:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. How many sisters and brothers did you have? You told me there were eight— | 30:32 |
Ann George Atwater | Five girls and four boys. | 30:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Five girls and four boys? | 30:40 |
Ann George Atwater | I'm the baby of all of them. | 30:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 30:44 |
Sonya Ramsey | We're like this form is long. | 30:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah, it's a bit long. Could you give me their names? | 30:49 |
Sonya Ramsey | Yes, | 30:52 |
Ann George Atwater | My oldest one is Alfred George. | 30:52 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Alfred George? | 30:54 |
Ann George Atwater | Uh-huh. The next one was Randolph George. | 30:55 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 31:03 |
Ann George Atwater | My sister's name is Climmie Dix. | 31:03 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. C-L-E-M-M-I-E? Clemmie? | 31:06 |
Ann George Atwater | C-L-I-M-M-I-E. Yes, Climmie. | 31:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 31:14 |
Ann George Atwater | The next one is Andrew George. | 31:19 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 31:26 |
Ann George Atwater | The next one is Ida Thurmond, Ida Francis Thurmond. | 31:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 31:35 |
Ann George Atwater | The next one is Virginia Pierce. | 31:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Mm-hmm. | 31:41 |
Ann George Atwater | The next one is Robert Ted George, not Robert Fido, now Robert Ted. | 31:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 31:46 |
Ann George Atwater | The next one is Hester Alene Williams. | 31:50 |
Karen Ferguson | How do you spell the second name? | 31:56 |
Ann George Atwater | A-L-E-N-E. | 31:57 |
Sonya Ramsey | Is that Hester? | 32:00 |
Ann George Atwater | Mm-hmm. | 32:00 |
Karen Ferguson | Is that wrong? Oh, Hester. Okay. Sorry. Okay. | 32:01 |
Ann George Atwater | And I, and me. And me. | 32:09 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 32:11 |
Sonya Ramsey | Okay. | 32:11 |
Karen Ferguson | What was Hester's last name? | 32:14 |
Ann George Atwater | Williams. Okay. Her name is Alene. Nobody never used the Hester part. | 32:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And how much older was your oldest brother than you? Do you know? | 32:21 |
Ann George Atwater | He was born in 1916. | 32:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 32:33 |
Ann George Atwater | I was born in 35. | 32:33 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Do you remember when Randolph was born? How much older is he? | 32:33 |
Ann George Atwater | See, Alfred is two years older than Randolph. | 32:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 32:39 |
Ann George Atwater | And then. | 32:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Climmie? | 32:39 |
Ann George Atwater | Randolph is two years older than Climmie. | 32:43 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 32:43 |
Ann George Atwater | All of them is two years apart, except that when you get down to me and Alene. Alene was three years older than I am. | 32:46 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 32:53 |
Sonya Ramsey | Okay. [indistinct 00:32:56] | 32:53 |
Ann George Atwater | But we both were born in the same month. I got all that down in my Bible back here. | 32:55 |
Karen Ferguson | That's all right. [indistinct 00:33:11] Could you give me your name for your children? | 33:08 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. The child that's dead, his name was Jimmy Wilson. | 33:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. When was he born? | 33:18 |
Ann George Atwater | He was born— | 33:22 |
Karen Ferguson | When you were 13? | 33:24 |
Ann George Atwater | About 15. | 33:24 |
Karen Ferguson | 15? Okay. | 33:24 |
Ann George Atwater | But he was born September the 26th. I can really go back and look that up. | 33:26 |
Karen Ferguson | All right. | 33:33 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. My next one is Lydia, L-Y-D-I-A Marie. Well she's a Green now. And she was born May 12th in '52. | 33:37 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 33:46 |
Ann George Atwater | My baby is Marilynn Denise Wilson. Marilynn has two Ns on it. | 33:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. She was born? | 33:57 |
Ann George Atwater | January the 26th in '56. | 34:03 |
Karen Ferguson | You have grandchildren, right? | 34:10 |
Ann George Atwater | Yeah, I have— | 34:11 |
Karen Ferguson | How many? | 34:13 |
Ann George Atwater | Now, my grandchildren, I have three. | 34:13 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. But you— | 34:22 |
Ann George Atwater | Now my husband has some children, so I claim them too. | 34:22 |
Karen Ferguson | Right. Okay. | 34:27 |
Ann George Atwater | But we didn't get into them, so I'll just leave those off. | 34:27 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Could you give me the places that you lived in your life. You were born in Columbus County and then— | 34:32 |
Ann George Atwater | Then I moved here. | 34:45 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 34:45 |
Ann George Atwater | Durham County. | 34:45 |
Karen Ferguson | When you remember approximately when you moved to Durham? | 34:47 |
Ann George Atwater | I moved here, it was in '53. | 34:50 |
Karen Ferguson | 1953. Okay. The schools that you've gone to? | 34:57 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. I went to Hallsboro Elementary School and Farmer's Union High School. Farmer's Union High School. Willie, watch the mailman. Oh, excuse me. I [indistinct 00:35:15] | 35:02 |
Karen Ferguson | That's okay. | 35:14 |
Ann George Atwater | 'Cause he won't stop with the car there. | 35:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. And you went to— | 35:23 |
Sonya Ramsey | Did you ask her about the dates? | 35:25 |
Karen Ferguson | What ages were you in Hallsboro Elementary? | 35:31 |
Ann George Atwater | I think the school went to, okay, I think to the eighth grade at Hallsboro. Then we went to the ninth, 10th, 11th at the high school, but I was promoted to the 10th. | 35:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 35:55 |
Ann George Atwater | See, I didn't finish. I would've come out in 11th grade had I continued. | 35:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. Did you get your high school diploma? | 36:07 |
Ann George Atwater | Yeah, I went back and studied it and got it and I got mine in Chapel Hill. I went back over there. But then I had two semesters of college. I challenged that and I didn't say that in my interview, but I did challenge that, 'cause it says you must pass the test to get into college, so I took the test and passed it so they couldn't turn me down. So then we had some other community people gave me the money to go pay for going for over there. I'm the one that really started on the campus about community-oriented social work. | 36:09 |
Karen Ferguson | This is at UNC? | 36:49 |
Ann George Atwater | No, this is at North Carolina Central. | 36:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. So when were you there at— | 36:50 |
Ann George Atwater | Oh, it must have been in the '70s. | 36:58 |
Karen Ferguson | 1970s? | 36:59 |
Ann George Atwater | Mm-hmm. | 36:59 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Then the high school diploma at Chapel Hill, where did you go there— | 37:02 |
Ann George Atwater | Whatever you go— | 37:07 |
Karen Ferguson | GED? | 37:09 |
Ann George Atwater | Yeah, I got my GED. | 37:11 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Okay. All right. Sorry, I have just want to get this straight. At Farmer's Union High School, you went to 10th grade? | 37:14 |
Ann George Atwater | I was promoted to the 10th. I never started the 10th. | 37:20 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. | 37:25 |
Ann George Atwater | But I'll say 10th grade if you want to. | 37:25 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Sorry. I guess I could. Could you tell me the jobs that you had? | 37:30 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. I worked domestic work. Now, I've raised quite a few children. | 37:34 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 37:48 |
Ann George Atwater | I always tell people I raised 200 children, but it wasn't quite that many. | 37:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Do you remember approximately when you were doing domestic work? What years? | 37:53 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. All of that came around '56, '57 and on up until I got sick, I did it. | 37:57 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay, so that would be until about 19, what? Until the— | 38:08 |
Ann George Atwater | Oh, till I'll say around '63. | 38:15 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. All right. Okay. Now I see all your awards on your— | 38:21 |
Sonya Ramsey | We have a question about what awards have you won. | 38:29 |
Karen Ferguson | We have a question about what awards you've won. Since you've got so many, maybe you want to tell me the ones that are most important to you that you could— | 38:29 |
Sonya Ramsey | [indistinct 00:38:39] | 38:37 |
Ann George Atwater | My Rosa Parks. | 38:39 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Rosa— | 38:40 |
Ann George Atwater | That's Rosa. One of the children banged on it and broke her foot and I'm still mad about it, and that's Rosa. | 38:42 |
Karen Ferguson | Yeah. | 38:49 |
Ann George Atwater | I got that in '82. The Women in Community Services give me that. I went to Dallas, Texas to bring her back on the plane, and that's the award. Oh, Lord. It ain't up there. Oh, God. It ain't up there. Them children walk by and they rub it, so they knocked the award down 'cause it was right there in the middle. It's shaped like a egg, and with her picture on the award. But I don't have it. I don't know where to tell them to look back there. I'll have it up there next time you come back, 'cause I'm going to put the rest of them back on the wall that fell off. But the others, the girl said, "Ann, you got too many. That's enough. Don't try to spread everything on the wall." | 38:49 |
Sonya Ramsey | Over 200. | 39:29 |
Karen Ferguson | Over 200 awards. | 39:29 |
Ann George Atwater | Yeah. Part of them stayed in at the Y. During the Black History Month. They used to come get them and put them on display up there, but then we brought them back home and I ain't let them out of sight since. | 39:35 |
Karen Ferguson | What your church do you go to currently? | 39:51 |
Ann George Atwater | Mount Calvary United Church of Christ. It's located 1715 Athens Avenue. The pastor there is Reverend J.C. Cheek. Do you need the pastor's name? | 39:54 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. No, that's fine. | 40:09 |
Ann George Atwater | Fine. Okay. I'm First Lady Deacon at that church. We have two women deacon. Oh, Lordy. | 40:14 |
Sonya Ramsey | What was the name of the church you went to before Mount Calvary? | 40:29 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. In Durham, I went to White Rock— | 40:29 |
Sonya Ramsey | Right. Okay. | 40:31 |
Ann George Atwater | Baptist Church, I think White Rock is Missionary Baptist, or White Rock Baptist. But the church at my home was New Light Baptist Church, Missionary Baptist. I'm now turned to be another young mom. I have two grandchildren I'm raising. | 40:32 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. What organizations do you belong to right now? | 41:00 |
Ann George Atwater | I don't know why I didn't get that resume of mine out. Okay. I belong to National Council of Negro Women, The Durham Committee on the Affairs of Black People, The NAACP. I just got off the Women Commission. I was one of those, but I'm not right now in the present. I may go back and I believe that's all other than in the church. I'm the choir singer on the choir, and I'm in charge of all of the women of the church. I'm chairman of the Missionary Department. I'm chairman of the Pastor's Aid and First Aid, was a First aid. I don't do much First Aid now, I can't walk. | 41:04 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Are there other organizations that you belong to in the past that you want me to record here? | 42:02 |
Ann George Atwater | Yeah, I used belong to UOCI. It's a batch of them, but what I'm going to have to do is get them up and can I get them to— | 42:07 |
Karen Ferguson | That would be good. If you— | 42:14 |
Ann George Atwater | —Chris— | 42:14 |
Karen Ferguson | If you could write us and send us a copy of your resume if you've got one [indistinct 00:42:19] | 42:15 |
Ann George Atwater | All right. Okay. All right. | 42:20 |
Karen Ferguson | That would be perfect. That would be great. | 42:23 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. All right. | 42:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. I think that's about all that we need. Oh, and also the release form. I'm sorry. | 42:24 |
Sonya Ramsey | Okay. You can go. I was just going to ask, how did you spell charrette? We just wanted ask how to spell it— | 42:35 |
Ann George Atwater | I don't know. I just always say 10-day program meetings for 10 days is what I always said. | 42:40 |
Sonya Ramsey | Okay. | 42:48 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 42:48 |
Ann George Atwater | How you spell it, I don't know. | 42:49 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 42:51 |
Ann George Atwater | I'm not one of them spellers. I'm one of them talkers. | 42:51 |
Sonya Ramsey | Me too. | 42:54 |
Karen Ferguson | The interview that we've done now is going to be deposited at Duke University in the archives there. Then the other— | 42:59 |
Ann George Atwater | And I feel bad about that 'cause somebody called me back when C.P. and I first got through with this when everything was good and fresh. Well, what I'll do, I got some other stuff. I got part of the first book that they started writing, Warner Brothers? And some of the write-ups. So some of that might have some more stuff that I left out in it. So what I'll do, I'll put it together and try to get it so you can have it. | 43:08 |
Sonya Ramsey | Okay. | 43:31 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So anyway, the interview will go to Duke and it's going to be placed somewhere else in the Black community in Durham, probably either at NCCU or even more likely at the Hayti Center. | 43:34 |
Ann George Atwater | Okay. | 43:47 |
Karen Ferguson | What we need you to do is to sign a release form so that we can use the interviews, and you've got two choices. Either you can sign this one, which is, anybody can look at it at any time. This other one is an agreement with restrictions so that if you want to restrict it to be not available until after your death or something like that, you can— | 43:51 |
Ann George Atwater | You don't want to wait till I die. | 44:16 |
Sonya Ramsey | Good. (laughs) | 44:17 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. So you're saying— | 44:17 |
Ann George Atwater | Somebody might read that and see how pitiful I am and might say, "Here, here's $5." (clapping) | 44:22 |
Sonya Ramsey | Oh no. | 44:23 |
Karen Ferguson | Oh, no. (all laughing) | 44:23 |
Sonya Ramsey | Or give you another award. | 44:28 |
Karen Ferguson | That's right. | 44:30 |
Sonya Ramsey | We'll give you another award. | 44:30 |
Karen Ferguson | So I'll give this to you to read. I'll just fill it out here first and then— | 44:32 |
Sonya Ramsey | [indistinct 00:44:36] take this off now. | 44:36 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. | 44:37 |
Ann George Atwater | Oh, yeah. Y'all about to keep my stuff. | 44:38 |
Karen Ferguson | Okay. Thank you. | 44:42 |
Ann George Atwater | This is really good. | 44:44 |
Sonya Ramsey | We try to get the best shot— | 44:44 |
Item Info
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