Mary Rogers interview recording, 1993 July 01

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Karen Ferguson	—begin. Mrs. Rogers, could you tell me where you grew up and a little bit about the community in which you grew up?	0:01
Mary Rogers	Well, I was born in Halifax County in a little community called the Eden Church Community. And we lived in the rural. We grew up on a farm and the community was thickly populated, I would say, mostly relatives. And it was a land that my grandfather had owned and most of it where we lived was land where my grandfather owned and we attended it and we had the opportunity to go to this local school, which was approximately a mile from my—maybe a mile and a half from our home. And did you want to know anything about the—you just want to know about the community.	0:12
Karen Ferguson	What were you thinking of telling me about?	1:23
Mary Rogers	Well, we didn't have a church per-se, but we used the school for everything, our entertainment and for church, Sunday school and all the religious programs. And of course we all were involved in this sort of thing and we could always depend on the neighbors. Everybody knew everybody. And it was just a quite close knit community. It seems like everybody was involved and everybody was concerned about each other. And of course we didn't have a lot, but we did have our own gardens and we were able to survive by having good food to eat. And the people then were quite independent. They was very industrious, I would say. And I guess maybe that's about it.	1:23
Karen Ferguson	Who did you grow up with, in your home when you were growing up?	2:36
Mary Rogers	We had seven children, four boys and three girls. The girls were younger than the boys. And my mother died when I was 14. And of course my father married a year later. But we were never—in other words, he always kept us in our home. And the new wife that her family was in their home, I would always joke and say, "well we just didn't have any houses in Halifax County that was big enough for the two families." And I guess that was why my daddy kept us separated. But we really had a wonderful time because we had the usual sibling rivalry that we always had, but we always able to iron things out. And my father was a remarkable man. He was a Christian and he always took us to Sunday school. He didn't send us to Sunday school and church. He took us.	2:41
Mary Rogers	And we did belong to a church that was approximately seven miles from the house. And they had church only once a month. And so we really enjoyed making preparation for going to church. And we had to go on a wagon which was drawn by two mules. Didn't have an automobile. And we would start out, I guess maybe about nine o'clock. And it'd be about 11:30 before we got there. And we just had church all day. And they would come home sometime at night where we didn't have—all we had to do, just have a lamp on there. You have a little speck of light because we didn't have automobiles that was so plentiful as we have today. But it seems as if we enjoyed our lives. Just like these people who have plenty. It was fun to us.	3:50
Mary Rogers	And my mother was a very, very straightforward woman. She didn't do a lot of joking and playing. And she spent most of her time in a rocking chair due to the fact she was ill. She had asthma in its truest form. But she ruled—I said she ruled with an iron hand. I tell my children that she ruled with an iron hand because she was able to discipline us and didn't even have to get up out of her chair. And she was not cruel either. And there would be times when she say, you come to me and if you've done something that you had to be reprimanded for, she would do it. And she used her rod of correction. We called the switch the rod of correction. And you dare not run because if you did, you'd have more coming. And I just think she was just a remarkable woman. She really taught—she didn't have much education, formal education, but she really taught what she believed. And she was a Christian too. And she was rich in bible knowledge and she could apply these principles to our lives.	4:49
Karen Ferguson	Now, do you remember anything about your grandparents?	6:21
Mary Rogers	Not a thing. I've never seen a grandparent. And this is a thing that disturbs my children. I have a son that's interested in seeking information on family tree. And he's just so disturbed because we don't have a lot of pictures of them, even though he goes to the courthouse and get the information about them. And this is just so fascinating to him. [indistinct 00:06:53]. I have my oldest brother, which is about 79 years old. He remembers my grandfather. But I don't think any of the other children remember.	6:24
Karen Ferguson	Do you know anything about them?	7:02
Mary Rogers	Well, I was told that my grandfather was a very progressive man. He did own quite a bit of property at the time. And there was a family, a man that owned a lot of land out in the [indistinct 00:07:28] community. And my father worked for this man. He was sort of a caretaker or overseer from one farm to the other. He just sort of kept the business going. And my grandmother, I didn't believe she worked outside of the home, but she was a very industrious woman. She taught her children well and about life. So as far as anything that they have done, I don't know outstanding or anything except they were good parents.	7:09
Karen Ferguson	Now how did he come about owning the land? Was this through Mr. Crow?	8:07
Mary Rogers	Owning the land? Well, I guess they worked hard for it, I guess. And they were able to purchase it. Well, I think that Mr. Man might have been a fair-minded man and maybe allowed them the opportunity to buy, I guess this was the way it was.	8:16
Karen Ferguson	Were there many Black landowners in the Eden Church community?	8:31
Mary Rogers	Most of them were. Most of them were.	8:37
Karen Ferguson	Were there any sharecroppers?	8:42
Mary Rogers	Yes. Yes, there were sharecroppers. Because there was a farm—there was a farm adjoining ours that was owned by another family that shared that crops with the people. And as the days went by and the children left home, the land seemed like sort of got away, from some of the landowners if they were not thrifty enough to hold on. And then The Depression came and really cleaned us all.	8:44
Karen Ferguson	So the Black landowners?	9:28
Mary Rogers	Right	9:31
Karen Ferguson	Now, these other places where the people were sharecropping, were these for White landowners?	9:33
Mary Rogers	Yes. And we had one Black fella who had a lot of farms and that had sharecroppers too.	9:37
Karen Ferguson	You were saying it was a very close knit community. Was your family close with sharecroppers as well as landowners?	9:49
Mary Rogers	Yes. You couldn't tell the difference. You would not know the difference. See when I was growing up—actually I was born in 1924. Well I guess maybe we were entering the depression at that time, I guess. Well I really remember in 1933 I could remember something about it or hearing them discuss it. And a lot of people got into a dilemma at that time and lost everything they had. I mean people who were wise and thrifty. It's just one of those things, something happened.	10:00
Karen Ferguson	Now, did you work on the farm when you were growing up?	10:46
Mary Rogers	Yes, I did.	10:49
Karen Ferguson	So you did field work?	10:49
Mary Rogers	Yes, now until I was about 16 or 17, I had the housework to do. These brothers did all the farm work and I would do the cooking. So I didn't have a chance to work on the farm, [indistinct 00:11:15]. They never exempted me from picking cotton. I'd say I got my worst whippings about picking cotton. I did not like to pick cotton. And so I didn't have to work until I was about 15 on the farm. But after that, when the boys left home to go to World War II, then we had to get out and sort the help with the farm. And so we did everything except wool, corn fodder. You heard of that?	10:57
Karen Ferguson	I've heard people talking about that. So when you say you that we did everything but that, who did the corn fodder?	11:52
Mary Rogers	Well, he had to get fellows to do that, get men to do that.	11:57
Karen Ferguson	So he hired some men?	12:01
Mary Rogers	Yes.	12:03
Karen Ferguson	Would these men hired, would they come from around, from nearby or would they—	12:04
Mary Rogers	Yeah, mostly nearby. You used to swap that sort of thing. Okay. And you helped me get mine and I'll help you get yours. We did that on other things too. Like tobacco. You helped this family down the road and you go and help them.	12:09
Karen Ferguson	Did families help each other in other ways? Not having to do with the farming.	12:34
Mary Rogers	I'll say yes, because there were times when we did not have adequate food supply. They would even share food. And I remember when I was a little girl before my mother died, if a person became ill in the community, she wouldn't think about going to see this person. She didn't carry something. They don't do that today, but they did it at that time. In other words, when a person got sick, we felt it was our responsibility to go and do what we could.	12:39
Karen Ferguson	Were there adults in that community to whom you looked up—particularly some sort of role models for you?	13:20
Mary Rogers	Yes. Yes indeed. Yeah, I had aunts. And then there were other people with families. Yes, that you really would like to be like.	13:32
Karen Ferguson	Can you remember anyone in particular?	13:50
Mary Rogers	Well, I remember one lady by the name of Mrs. Peggy Adams. She had three daughters and she was just a typical good mother I thought. She would help her husband with the farm work. And yet she had time to take care of the girls too. And I grew up with them and I sort of know what was going on in their home and I would just say what I would like to be like she is. And of course in my profession there was a nurse that worked the community, she always supervised our health. And I would say, well, I certainly would just like to be like she is. And of course she was an encourager and, "you can do it, you can do it." And I said, "well I got to do it because she has that kind of confidence in me so I must do it." And I just got help from everybody. Old people were just so encouraging to us.	13:54
Mary Rogers	I think they felt sorry for us because our mother had died and my father was a very considerate man. And the boys, my brothers were considerate too. They always kept us covered and say if Daddy had to be away, they would make sure that they, one or the other, would stay and see that we were all okay. And if at any time that they needed to be away, all of them be away at one time, we had this aunt that just was right over the way there. They just pack us up and take us over there and we would fuss all the way going and fuss all the way coming back because they want to leave home. They want to leave home. But I see now, I mean now that I'm grown, I wonder, I just said, well why can't we stay home by ourselves? We are not afraid. But they wanted us covered and I see that because I'm foolish like that about my children too. So we had some rugged times and we had some good times too.	15:06
Karen Ferguson	What were some of the times that were harder? Did you have times when you didn't have enough to eat and that kind of thing?	16:08
Mary Rogers	I don't ever remember the times when we didn't have enough to eat. You see? Because we always had pigs, chickens. We didn't raise turkeys. That was our meat. We always had a garden. And we always preserved food in the summertime for the wintertime. So I can truly say that we have never been hungry.	16:15
Karen Ferguson	So what made some of these times hard when you went through?	16:55
Mary Rogers	Well, we didn't have money to go and buy clothes like other people had. And of course this is one thing they instilled in us that you don't have to have clothes to be great. In other words, clothes don't make the man, the man make the clothes. And we couldn't go to school as regular as people who had plenty.	16:58
Karen Ferguson	Why was that?	17:37
Mary Rogers	Well, we had to get the crops out. We had to work—most of the time, the problem would be in the fall and we had to get the crops out and just he wouldn't hire anybody to do that. He said, you go to school three days and you work three days. We went to school on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. We work Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. And Sunday you go to church. And maybe, I guess maybe we just wanted things that we could have done without. Maybe that's why I was saying we was having a hard time. And I wouldn't think that was so hard. Now that I'm grown and I'm real glad because I think I benefited from it. Because it motivated me to always get up and work, be independent, and try to get something for yourself and not depend on other people.	17:39
Karen Ferguson	As a land owning family, did your parents talk about the independence a lot to you?	18:45
Mary Rogers	Well, yes.	18:52
Karen Ferguson	How so? What would they say?	18:54
Mary Rogers	They always would make it a point to have us get up out of bed. We never could stay in bed like some children could. Now you get up at the same time every day, whether you had anything planned for that day or not. And I think that was one thing that would stimulate us to get on up and get your work done. And they could not handle you dragging along. They wanted you to pep up and get the work done, make it exciting. And she would always used to—she would say to us, the out mind is the devil's workshop. You need to be doing something and work won't hurt. Work really never hurt anybody and things like that. And work hard, save, and try to have something for yourself. Is that what you mean?	19:01
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering too, did they talk much about the value of land ownership to you?	20:07
Mary Rogers	No they didn't. No they didn't. Because I think maybe I interpreted the way they explained this to us and talked to us about it, that "we don't want you to get so overzealous about material things because material things are going to fade away. But I want you to get good spiritual background and in this, the other things will be added." Because I have seen people who are just so hungry for material things or not knowing that material things don't always last, that they will do anything to get ahead or get on top. My father was really cautious about that. They always let us know that it's all right not to be rich.	20:15
Karen Ferguson	Did he ever talk about the importance of being independent from White people or from—in the way that sharecroppers were dependent on for credit and that kind of thing? Did he ever talk about that?	21:36
Mary Rogers	Yeah, I see what you mean. You mean always not to want to work for. In other words, be on your own. Well now he thought that we should do this. I mean we ought to work in order—we would have to work for the sharecropper. I mean the homeowner, the farm owner.	21:53
Karen Ferguson	What did you do for fun when you were a little girl?	22:26
Mary Rogers	What I do for what?	22:28
Karen Ferguson	Fun.	22:29
Mary Rogers	Well we made our toys. We could make a doll baby. And I want to see what I can say. We worked all the time. We didn't have much fun, to tell you the truth. We didn't have much fun. And you were talking about all up to my teenage years. Well, we really didn't have a lot of fun. We read and read books, the books that we could get our hands on. We visited our relatives and a few friends and we were just allowed a certain length of time to visit with them. If you went over to your cousin's house and they give you 15 minutes to play. And your traveling time was included in that. And we had socials at school. We had 4H Club. I guess that would be included as fun, wouldn't it?	22:32
Karen Ferguson	Was it fun?	23:56
Mary Rogers	Yeah, to go to Panacea Springs to a picnic and they would take us on a truck and—we really didn't have too much fun. There wasn't too much going on in the community. Because they worked all the time. We went to church and that was fun to us because you hadn't seen our friends—well, in the summertime we wouldn't see them over the summer. But when we got back to school, you'd see them at school and everything. I don't know. We didn't go to the movies. The movies was a good little away. They thought that dancing was wrong so we couldn't go [indistinct 00:24:51] dancing. I guess maybe we can—right now. I can't even think.	23:57
Karen Ferguson	Well, that's all right. You've given me several things. The 4H Club, what did you do at 4H Club?	24:59
Mary Rogers	This was extension. This is extension in your time. We had an agent here and he would call the farm boys and girls. And some boys and girls took agriculture.	25:04
Karen Ferguson	At school?	25:21
Mary Rogers	At school. Yes. But this man was the community worker. He was the farmers, the adult farmers in the community.	25:22
Karen Ferguson	Was this a Black agent?	25:28
Mary Rogers	Yes, it was. And he would get the boys and girls together. They had an extension agent that was female and she would work with the girls and they taught us cooking, sewing, some of everything, like fishing and growing vegetables and canning vegetables and just sewing, housekeeping. They didn't have childcare included as much as they have now. But I don't think they knew very much about it anyway at that time.	25:36
Karen Ferguson	What now were these things that your mother had taught you as well? Sewing and cooking?	26:19
Mary Rogers	Yes. Yes. This was just an extension of it. Well, she wasn't able to do it herself. So we had to do it. And then if we didn't do it—I had an aunt that she was a home economic student at Bricks and she was in the president's home most of the time. They had inviting guests in. She would help with the preparation and serving and all. And so she knew quite a bit. And then she passed it on down to her sisters and they passed it on to their children. And a lot of times if I had to make biscuits, she'd say, you come to me and I'd go to her and get the information and go back and apply it. So I never did learn to make biscuits.	26:26
Karen Ferguson	You said you were doing most of the cooking for the family too.	27:26
Mary Rogers	Yes.	27:29
Karen Ferguson	When did you start doing that? How old were you?	27:29
Mary Rogers	I guess about six or seven years old. Yeah, that was tough time. But it didn't seem to be tough. I just thought it was a part of life. Something that I was said to you. I never got bored with it or tired of it.	27:32
Karen Ferguson	Now were you responsible for all of—were your sisters helping you as well? Or were you preparing all the food yourself?	27:46
Mary Rogers	Well, most of the time I was doing it myself. They would take other chores would one would keep the house, but the baby girl didn't do very much. You know how that is. But that girl next to me would take care of the house. And I mean she keeps house. She's scrupulously clean and she's an excellent housekeeper. Well, I didn't get that. And I would do the cooking and we would do the washing together and we'd have the washing together in our tub. And we had three or four of them. But we would wash. You know how we used to boil the clothes? Have you ever heard of that?	27:53
Karen Ferguson	I have heard.	28:38
Mary Rogers	We did that and rinse the clothes and hung them on the clothesline. This very aunt, she would come to see us at that time the clothes would be on the line. And if they were not as bright as they should be, they had to come down and we had to do them over again. But that was helpful. I would know better than to put them out there if they were not clean. And then that makes me sensitive to it now. Even now. [indistinct 00:29:15] clothes.	28:41
Karen Ferguson	Did you ever do any work when you were a child to make the little bit of money? Little bit of money you were talking before about—	29:20
Mary Rogers	Seemed like we picked the blueberries for Mr. Cherub and I think we got somewhere around 5 cents a quart. Yes, we did. And there were times when we had landowners that was not in the family, that we did not have to share our work with. They would pay us for handling tobacco. And then I worked for a White family that lived near my house. I would go and help to keep his mother and do chores around the house.	29:28
Karen Ferguson	Now you said that some of the families—some of the places that you worked for Black landowners and they paid you because you didn't have to share work with them. Now, who did you have an agreement to share work with? Who were those farmers?	30:08
Mary Rogers	Well, mostly they would be relatives. I had a brother that—he didn't have any children. So he would come and work with my father so that we could come and work with him. And then there was an uncle where we had the same arrangement. And then maybe one or two other families that we felt close to. Anything you felt obligated to do.	30:25
Karen Ferguson	Now you said you also went to work for this White family. How old were you when you started to do that?	30:57
Mary Rogers	I might've been about maybe 12, 13, something like that.	31:02
Karen Ferguson	Was that a usual thing for girls to do to go and work like that?	31:07
Mary Rogers	I think this was just an isolated thing. Because she didn't always give us money. Sometimes she would give us something, maybe a nice garment to wear. Because it wasn't a regular job, it was just if she needed somebody that particular morning, maybe about an hour or so. It was nothing. It was not a regular job.	31:13
Karen Ferguson	Was that a good job?	31:38
Mary Rogers	Well I learned a lot. She taught me very well. She taught me how to clean, how to iron. And I mean these are the things that nobody can take from me.	31:41
Karen Ferguson	So this was the White lady taught you these things?	32:00
Mary Rogers	Yes. Yes. I would say in connection with what I had learned at home, what I learned at school, and the 4H Club.	32:06
Karen Ferguson	Now, did all children—were they exposed in this way to these skills? Did most children go to the 4H Club for example, or participate with these extension activities?	32:14
Mary Rogers	No, it's just like it is today, just a few, said their parents were interested. Some people don't take time to investigate and see what the children can get out of things. But my folks were always wanted the best for us, I thought.	32:35
Karen Ferguson	Were there places in the community which you grew up where you weren't allowed to go or people you weren't allowed to associate with?	32:57
Mary Rogers	Well, there were places that we were not allowed to go before 1964. We were not able to go into restaurants and things like that.	33:05
Karen Ferguson	But I was thinking about your parents telling you don't go to those places. Those are bad places.	33:16
Mary Rogers	Yes, of course. Of course.	33:22
Karen Ferguson	What kind of places were those?	33:24
Mary Rogers	Clubs and joints and things where they have alcohol. Well, we were not allowed to dance so we couldn't go to the clubs where they danced. We were not allowed to smoke and drink alcohol. And I guess that's about the size of it.	33:27
Karen Ferguson	Did you ever sneak out and do any of those things?	33:46
Mary Rogers	Well no. I was just afraid. I never did. I would say that my sisters and brothers didn't because I really believe what they said.	33:51
Karen Ferguson	So some of your brothers and sisters were a little more mischievous?	34:01
Mary Rogers	Yeah. That's right. Yeah, I was frightened to death all the time. Because see I was sort of held responsible for them.	34:04
Karen Ferguson	Okay. I see. Yeah.	34:09
Mary Rogers	But now I don't believe they wanted to do anything detrimental or wrong. But they were just wanted a little fun. Because you so limited in fun.	34:12
Karen Ferguson	So you had quite a lot of responsibility when you were growing up?	34:25
Mary Rogers	Yes. That's exactly right.	34:29
Karen Ferguson	Did you ever resent having to do all those things for your family?	34:32
Mary Rogers	Well I realized I haven't had very much childhood. No life. Well what I say, childhood was kind of cut short. There were times now—the girl was three years old when my mother died. There would be times when I would really like to be out playing or just reading when I would have to deal with her. And say, you put her to sleep, you think she's asleep and she's not. You think you going get a good chance to play. But they wake up, she would wake up. So really it was a lot of responsibility I think, for a child no more than 12 or 13 years old.	34:39
Karen Ferguson	So you raised your sister then?	35:31
Mary Rogers	Well, I would say that, yes.	35:35
Karen Ferguson	You said before that you didn't like to pick cotton.	35:41
Mary Rogers	I hated it.	35:46
Karen Ferguson	And why was that?	35:46
Mary Rogers	It was so painful. And you pick it the first time and you look back another week there is just as much out there as it was when you went over it. And I would have to get an annual whipping. My father would whip me every September because I didn't want to go out there and pick that cotton. And when I went away to school, I wrote back in. I was so homesick. No, we didn't ever go away and stay with anybody. You had to stay at home all the time. And I got to school and I just wanted just rearing to get away. I had to pick no cotton and I was so homesick. I didn't even unpack my clothes. I didn't unpack.	35:48
Mary Rogers	So I wrote back and told him I just wanted to come back home. I felt like I could just pick a lot of cotton. And my father [indistinct 00:36:49] that he didn't need me. He didn't have any cotton to pick. Told me to stay there and get my lessons. So I guess that's the only thing that kept me from coming back is because I did not want to pick that cotton. I sure didn't. And I couldn't pick much either. I picked 180 at one time and I said I wouldn't do that anymore because it was too strenuous.	36:39
Karen Ferguson	Did he ever hire people to pick cotton?	37:13
Mary Rogers	No, I've never known him to hire anybody. And that was something else we swapped too. We would share that. "You help me. I help you."	37:16
Karen Ferguson	So you would you ever go over to sharecropper's land to help them with their work?	37:28
Mary Rogers	Yes, because we would get money from that.	37:35
Karen Ferguson	So you get it from the landowners?	37:38
Mary Rogers	If they had a lot of—some of them had a large amount of tobacco, that would be about the only thing that we would be able to help anybody in back in the summertime. But in the fall and winter we was so busy getting ours out, only the three days that we had so that we didn't have time to go help anybody else in the cotton.	37:45
Karen Ferguson	You said that you read as much as you could, a lot of reading. Was this something that your parents encouraged in you?	38:10
Mary Rogers	Yes, because my father always read. Now my mother didn't do a lot of reading. I don't know how she got that information that she got. I guess maybe they shared it. He would read, he would share it with her, I guess. And we would just be reading things—we didn't have anything much, but The Progressive Farmer. That was a newspaper that would come every month. And school books. And we always listened to the radio and we just read everything. We got hands on. Because this aunt, she had a lot of books and I mean a lot of different kind of books because she was married to a professor and he had a library and we were curious to read that work.	38:19
Karen Ferguson	Now did they live close by, your aunts and uncles?	39:10
Mary Rogers	Well, approximately, I say a mile apart. Some of them were closer. But the farthest one away would be about—and the one over at Dan's Chapel, that was an aunt too. She was about seven miles from here. That's where our church was.	39:13
Karen Ferguson	Did your parents get any Black newspapers?	39:36
Mary Rogers	Yes, we did.	39:40
Karen Ferguson	Which one was that?	39:41
Mary Rogers	It was The Journaling Guide. It was from Norfolk. It was a paper from Norfolk and we took that local paper, which was called The Progress. And the newspaper—News Observer. Yeah. We've always had News Observer.	39:43
Karen Ferguson	Where would people gather in the community to find out about local news?	40:08
Mary Rogers	At the school. At the PTA. The church. Well, no, they didn't give out as much news at the church as they do now. Church was strictly for religion.	40:11
Karen Ferguson	Okay. All right. So at school they would have some announcements about what happened?	40:27
Mary Rogers	Yes. Yeah, when I was growing up, I don't remember announcements being made in church. I don't really don't. Since I've been 18, I don't remember. But I know we would hear about news at church and we were gathering homes sometime and sing and pray. And even when they were going to have a fight over the radio, these people would come to the house and listen. Because everybody didn't have radio.	40:43
Karen Ferguson	So Joe Lewis?	41:29
Mary Rogers	We happened to have one and they would come and we would just light for the fight to come. I wasn't interested in the fight, but I just was interested in the people who would come to visit us.	41:31
Karen Ferguson	Were there any famous Black people that you were sort of your heroes or your idols or people that you really admired?	41:41
Mary Rogers	You mean famous nationally?	41:51
Karen Ferguson	Yeah, maybe nationally. Someone like Marian Anderson or Joe Lewis?	41:56
Mary Rogers	Yeah, that's right. That Joe Lewis was—they raved about Joe Lewis. Of course, Marian Anderson, Charlotte Hawkins Brown, Mary McLeod Bethune, T.S Inborden, Marty Cal Johnson, Benjamin Mays. I mean, these are people that I have actually seen.	42:00
Karen Ferguson	Did you see these people when you were growing up? When you were living around—	42:40
Mary Rogers	Well after I left home, I just made it a point, if they came to the area where I was [indistinct 00:42:51] at that time I made a point to go to see them. Now when I was at North Carolina Central, we had Benny Mays and [indistinct 00:43:02] Johnson and Charlotte Hawkins Brown and all of them to come to speak maybe at Vesper. And I got a chance to see them then. And that was a lot of Black people [indistinct 00:43:18].	42:44
Karen Ferguson	Now, did you know about these famous people when you were growing up as well, when you were living on the farm?	43:18
Mary Rogers	Yeah, some of them we did. Because I did read. Yeah, I think maybe that was probably what stimulated us to get out of the—and do something too.	43:28
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Did any of your brothers and sisters continue to farm when they grew up?	43:49
Mary Rogers	Yes, my oldest brother did.	43:54
Karen Ferguson	But none of the others?	43:57
Mary Rogers	None of the others did.	43:58
Karen Ferguson	Now, what was that all right with your parents? Did they want you to leave the farm, do you think?	43:59
Mary Rogers	No. I think maybe whatever you think that you can do best, you go and do that.	44:08
Karen Ferguson	But you wanted to leave the country, did you?	44:14
Mary Rogers	Yes, I did.	44:20
Karen Ferguson	That's all right.	44:20
Mary Rogers	Would love to go back to it now if I could, on the good circumstances.	44:20
Karen Ferguson	And why did you want to leave?	44:20
Mary Rogers	Well, we thought that it was too hard for so little. Do you understand?	44:31
Karen Ferguson	I do. So this would be something that you'd talk about when you talk about your dreams of leaving?	44:44
Mary Rogers	Yes. That's exactly right.	44:49
Karen Ferguson	Who was the first person in your family to leave farm, to go away?	44:51
Mary Rogers	Leave farm. My second oldest brother and he went to Newport News, Virginia and worked in the shipyard. But he returned, he didn't stay—well, maybe he stayed five, maybe five to six years, something like that. And then he came back. But he did not continue in farming. He did carpenter work and he was an excellent carpenter.	44:56
Karen Ferguson	How did he come about being a carpenter?	45:32
Mary Rogers	Well, we had an uncle that was a carpenter and I think they all admired him and they had the opportunity to help him. And I can imagine he taught them a lot of things.	45:35
Karen Ferguson	Now, where did this uncle live?	45:48
Mary Rogers	He lived just across the branch and he was in the compound too.	45:51
Karen Ferguson	And who did he work for? Did he work for White people as well as Black people?	45:58
Mary Rogers	Yes. Sometimes. Sometimes. Even come all the way down here. Customers even in the city of Enfield.	46:02
Karen Ferguson	And then who left after that, after him?	46:14
Mary Rogers	My next oldest brother left. He went to Baltimore, Maryland to get a job and he got a job with Bethlehem Steel.	46:20

Karen Ferguson	So most everyone, people also left this area too.	0:01
Mary Rogers	Yes, to better themselves.	0:07
Karen Ferguson	Right.	0:09
Mary Rogers	Uh-huh.	0:09
Karen Ferguson	What kind of values do you think your parents instilled in you? You've talked a little bit about that, but could you say a little bit?	0:12
Mary Rogers	Values. Honesty, perseverance, integrity, independence. I would think sharing. Volunteer, volunteerism, that was one thing that we did a lot of that. I think that's why we do a lot of it now because it's instill in us that you are supposed to help your fellow man. You're supposed to come to their aid if they need it.	0:19
Karen Ferguson	Right.	1:14
Mary Rogers	Now, they didn't instill in us that you just do anything to get rich. Now that was one thing they looked like they tried to suppress, they didn't want you to get out there. And they want you to be honest, you get an honest living. I said independence, didn't I? Oh yeah, good education. Go to school. They'd advocate that. I'm sure there are other attributes that I ought to have but.	1:19
Karen Ferguson	When you were at home, who was the boss?	2:10
Mary Rogers	Well, I guess maybe I was the boss.	2:15
Karen Ferguson	Oh, you were the boss?	2:17
Mary Rogers	Yes.	2:17
Karen Ferguson	After your mother died?	2:19
Mary Rogers	Yes, uh-huh. Yes. And it is like that they would sort of cater to whatever I say because they thought that this was okay.	2:20
Karen Ferguson	When your mother died, did you start helping your father out, making decisions about money and budgeting?	2:33
Mary Rogers	Well, that was no problem because there was no money.	2:40
Karen Ferguson	Right. Okay.	2:42
Mary Rogers	And while I was a child, he bought—he always would. He'd get groceries when mother was there. He would always go do the shopping. I could make the list and he could shop by the list.	2:45
Karen Ferguson	Why do you think he went? I've heard several people talking about how their fathers or their husbands did the shopping. The women made the list, but the men did the shopping. Why do you think the men went to do the shopping?	3:00
Mary Rogers	I guess they wanted to hold onto the money.	3:13
Karen Ferguson	Oh, okay.	3:14
Mary Rogers	Well, my mother wasn't able to go and shop.	3:19
Karen Ferguson	Right.	3:21
Mary Rogers	But now this role model that I was telling about, Ms. Adams.	3:22
Karen Ferguson	Right.	3:25
Mary Rogers	Ms. Adams did her shopping, her home shopping. I don't think she, they went together rather, in it together. And I don't care a whole lot about shopping myself right now. I don't know what reason. But that was just the way it was. We just had a few women in, even in that area that went to town to get the groceries, they would write the list and they would go pick the feed. I don't wonder why that, sure enough. It was just the culture, I guess.	3:26
Karen Ferguson	Right. Where did your father go to do the shopping?	4:03
Mary Rogers	And really, the funny thing they used to say about him, if he would take that list.	4:07
Karen Ferguson	Whoops, sorry.	4:14
Mary Rogers	And if this particular store didn't have everything on that list, you better go get there because he wasn't going anywhere else to look for it.	4:15
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	4:18
Mary Rogers	So he would bring it down here. We had grocery stores.	4:25
Karen Ferguson	In Enfield?	4:28
Mary Rogers	Yeah, uh-huh. And then they had some stores out in the rural, but now they were very, just like it is today. They were very expensive and you could do better on into the town.	4:29
Karen Ferguson	Right. So did he go to Meyer's or?	4:41
Mary Rogers	Yeah.	4:44
Karen Ferguson	Or where did he go for groceries?	4:44
Mary Rogers	They did not go to Meyer's. They had others. There was a Dickens grocery store, there was a Pearson. And I don't believed my daddy shopped at Meyer's much.	4:46
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Do you know how he decided what store he would go to?	5:00
Mary Rogers	Yeah, I think maybe he went to the, well, I started saying he went to the store where he could get credit if he needed it. But Meyer's, I think Meyer's credit is something, I don't know how he decided. I don't know why they, how they decided that.	5:06
Karen Ferguson	Do you remember your father ever getting a loan from a storekeeper? Not for things at the store, but for machinery or to buy a little more land or anything like that, furnishing him?	5:34
Mary Rogers	No.	5:45
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	5:45
Mary Rogers	There was a man that lived up below us. No, above us, that they would get money from to buy food.	5:46
Karen Ferguson	Right.	6:06
Mary Rogers	And you paid back in the fall.	6:07
Karen Ferguson	Right, okay. So he wouldn't only get credit sometimes from the store owners, but he would get a loan from one of these—	6:14
Mary Rogers	Somebody that he could trust and he didn't mind.	6:20
Karen Ferguson	Right. So is this a White person who did that?	6:23
Mary Rogers	No, this one was a Black one.	6:27
Karen Ferguson	Okay. How did your parents, well, first of all, now you said when your father remarried, you lived in two different houses.	6:36
Mary Rogers	Yes.	6:43
Karen Ferguson	Now, did he live with his new wife?	6:43
Mary Rogers	Yes, he did.	6:43
Karen Ferguson	Oh, so you all were all by yourself?	6:47
Mary Rogers	Well, that's weekends when he would go.	6:49
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	6:49
Mary Rogers	And this is when these aunts would take their group, take their time to care for us.	6:54
Karen Ferguson	So he would go to his new wife's house on the weekends.	6:59
Mary Rogers	Mm-hmm.	7:09
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Did you have a good relationship with her or were you—?	7:09
Mary Rogers	Her children too.	7:09
Karen Ferguson	Okay. How far away did they live from?	7:10
Mary Rogers	I would say about five miles.	7:11
Karen Ferguson	How did your parents expect you to behave in front of adults?	7:19
Mary Rogers	I mean, be on your toes, I'm telling you. Yeah, they always had us to respect elders. They respect yourself, and anybody that you come in contact with. Is this what you mean?	7:25
Karen Ferguson	Now, did they ever tell you how to treat White people differently than Black people?	7:46
Mary Rogers	That's one thing that we did not do. We were not different. We didn't treat them differently.	7:52
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Do you remember them ever telling you how to stay out of trouble with White people in terms of maybe staying out of their way or anything like that?	7:57
Mary Rogers	No, they didn't, because see, we didn't have—I never had much contact with White people other than the little family that I helped.	8:14
Karen Ferguson	Right.	8:27
Mary Rogers	Until I went away from home, that was in 1943. And I think they just taught us to treat people as people.	8:28
Karen Ferguson	Right. Do you remember people getting into trouble with White people at all when you were growing up?	8:45
Mary Rogers	Growing up?	8:53
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	8:53
Mary Rogers	No.	8:53
Karen Ferguson	No?	8:53
Mary Rogers	No.	8:53
Karen Ferguson	So you don't remember anybody there being any kind of violence or anything like that?	9:00
Mary Rogers	I really don't. The only, we read about it in Mississippi and places like that.	9:06
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	9:11
Mary Rogers	But so far as locally, no.	9:12
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	9:13
Mary Rogers	We had friends who lived on, or had a White farm owners too, but I've never known of anything to happen. Well, is that what you mean?	9:25
Karen Ferguson	Yeah, no, that's what I mean. What were the signs of segregation when you came into town?	9:40
Mary Rogers	Well, you had White water.	9:44
Karen Ferguson	Right.	9:46
Mary Rogers	You had White bathroom. And of course the eating places, you would have to go around to the back. And to say if they had a hot dog stand, you would to go to the Black one and the White went to the White.	9:47
Karen Ferguson	How about at the doctor? You went to the doctor's office?	10:09
Mary Rogers	Yeah, same way.	10:12
Karen Ferguson	Were there any Black doctors in this area?	10:14
Mary Rogers	Yes, we always had a Black doctor, but some of them could go to the Black doctor because if they had some means of getting money. But some of the sharecroppers had to go to—	10:18
Karen Ferguson	To the White doctor. And why did they have to go to the White doctors?	10:36
Mary Rogers	Well, because the farm on would not pay the Black doctor for their tenants. In other words, they'd have a contract. That's this whole thing in the relationship, they would just have a contract with a certain doctor and then these people would have to go to this doctor. And then whenever he sent the bill to them, the sharecropper would pay. I mean the landowner would pay the bill.	10:42
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Now do you think, because landowners didn't have this same kind of relationship with White, there's this White person who will pay your bills and so on, but you don't have independence because he controls where you go to the doctor and so on that, were there ever things that you could not do because you didn't have this White person protecting your family in that way?	11:12
Mary Rogers	Let's see. Run that by me again.	11:44
Karen Ferguson	I was wondering what, well, I'm not sure what I said. I'll just forget what I said. I just was wondering, were there ever times you could not go to the doctor because you couldn't pay the doctor, whereas the sharecropper could because the White—	11:46
Mary Rogers	Yeah, of course.	12:09
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	12:09
Mary Rogers	Of course. Well, that was with my father always tried to make preparations for that. He would. Yeah, that's true. They had the money and they could go. But we have never been turned down by our doctor.	12:09
Karen Ferguson	Right. But were there other things like that where sharecroppers could do go certain things or could get certain things because the White man would pay for it. And for landowners, you'd have to wait or you'd be denied something because you didn't have that protection or the payment.	12:25
Mary Rogers	Well, I can imagine so.	12:49
Karen Ferguson	Can you think of any other examples to that?	12:52
Mary Rogers	Well, I say using automobile mobile for an example, if I wanted a new car, I couldn't go down to that place and get no car. But if the sharecropper, if he had the confidence in the person who's working for him, yes, he could go and get a car and he would pay for that car. I seen that done.	12:57
Karen Ferguson	Right. But what was the negative side of being a sharecropper as opposed to a landowner?	13:22
Mary Rogers	It would be the negative side. He wasn't independent.	13:31
Karen Ferguson	Right. And what did that mean? What did his lack of independence mean?	13:34
Mary Rogers	Well, that's kind of like slavery.	13:39
Karen Ferguson	Right.	13:42
Mary Rogers	Suppress, so to speak.	13:44
Karen Ferguson	Right. Well, how would the landowner control the sharecropper's life? What kinds of things could he determine? Or tell the sharecropper he had to do?	13:45
Mary Rogers	Well, he'd take controls of the number of days the children could go to school.	13:59
Karen Ferguson	Okay. So he would say you can't send your—?	14:04
Mary Rogers	Not until the crop is out, where in them hours was getting out, but he was slowly getting out.	14:08
Karen Ferguson	Right.	14:14
Mary Rogers	Because three days you went to school and three days you would work.	14:15
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	14:20
Mary Rogers	We didn't want to work on Saturday, but we did have to do it.	14:21
Karen Ferguson	Anything else can you think of that the landowner could control?	14:28
Mary Rogers	Well, they could control the amount of cash money you had.	14:35
Karen Ferguson	Right.	14:54
Mary Rogers	Now, I can't think.	14:54
Karen Ferguson	All right. I'm just interested in the difference between a landowner, and a sharecropper. But that's helpful.	14:54
Mary Rogers	And they control the amount of clothes that you could wear because they weren't going to put out so much money on clothes, so then you just weren't going to have a lot of it. He'd give you bare necessities.	15:11
Karen Ferguson	Right.	15:18
Mary Rogers	Because you wouldn't have—and then there are times when things would be going on and you want to attend.	15:19
Karen Ferguson	Right.	15:33
Mary Rogers	But you would have to, the crops came first.	15:35
Karen Ferguson	Right.	15:38
Mary Rogers	So you controlled some of your activities.	15:38
Karen Ferguson	Right. Do you think that was any ever a problem with, do you remember White people in this area ever being resentful or not approving of the fact that there were prosperous Black landowners in this area?	15:47
Mary Rogers	I guess maybe I was naive.	16:08
Karen Ferguson	Right. Can you imagine that happening?	16:11
Mary Rogers	Well, that would be the only way they could control things, is to keep landowners from owning which property. Yeah.	16:17
Karen Ferguson	And did that happen just, were Black landowners denied buying certain lands?	16:26
Mary Rogers	Well, I would think so.	16:33
Karen Ferguson	You don't remember your father getting into that?	16:37
Mary Rogers	No. I guess maybe he didn't tell everything.	16:40
Karen Ferguson	Right.	16:41
Mary Rogers	And he was the type of person that did shelter. I can't imagine they talked to themselves. But I think they tried to keep, he didn't want us to be hostile to nobody, really. I do remember that I had an uncle that, this was my grandfather's land. He was married to my father's sister and that had some land. And a lot of times he would go and get money from somebody here in town. And a lot of times, they would have them get the money and would be, might not quite pay for it.	16:41
Mary Rogers	Well, this would be hanging over his head, and never just get further and further in debt. Well, he did this on his own because he could have slacked up, not gotten any more money. And I think maybe this man was really waiting to get that land. But his wife was very smart, she wasn't going to let him do it. So they would make some kind of arrangements where they could get this bill paid. They'd keep him from getting land. But until this uncle got sick, were they able to get that land paid for? The boys just took it and worked and did without, and just took the money and put it on that debt.	17:36
Karen Ferguson	Right. So that was really people under—	18:29
Mary Rogers	Yeah, right.	18:36
Karen Ferguson	Saved the land at all costs.	18:36
Mary Rogers	Yes, saved. That's right. And we've had a lot of people to do it that way. Yes, of course. I think that's how a lot of lands got away from the people is by owing so much to the landowner.	18:37
Karen Ferguson	Right.	18:56
Mary Rogers	That you just lose that.	18:58
Karen Ferguson	All right, maybe we could talk a little bit about school now.	18:59
Mary Rogers	About school?	19:05
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Now, where did you go to school first?	19:06
Mary Rogers	There was a little Eden Rosenwald. You remember Rosenwald Schools?	19:09
Karen Ferguson	Mm-hmm.	19:12
Mary Rogers	You don't remember.	19:12
Karen Ferguson	No, I know about them.	19:13
Mary Rogers	But you've heard of them, you've read of it. Yeah. Went to local, a three room school. I think they taught three classes in each room.	19:13
Karen Ferguson	And you said you could only go Monday, Wednesday, Friday?	19:25
Mary Rogers	Yes. Well, that was during the cotton picking.	19:28
Karen Ferguson	Were there some children who couldn't go, who never went to school or were only able to go every, just very—	19:31
Mary Rogers	I don't believe there were any children that were not able to go to school. I really don't. But they didn't go, they were not pushed to go. They were not encouraged to go. And then there were some that their fathers felt that work was more important. And then when the crops were in, they were so far behind, they were discouraged.	19:44
Karen Ferguson	Right.	20:01
Mary Rogers	So I think I was thankful for my father's method. His method was better.	20:03
Karen Ferguson	Right. Did many people follow this Monday, Wednesday, Friday thing?	20:09
Mary Rogers	Yes. All of them in my family did. Yeah.	20:12
Karen Ferguson	And how did you catch up with the lessons that you missed?	20:19
Mary Rogers	The teacher would send it to us.	20:20
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	20:24
Mary Rogers	Yeah. They always had good relationship with the teachers. I mean, too much so, because if anything happened, we were in school, she would bring us home. I mean, she would walk with us home, see the teacher lived in the community, knew everybody. And if we act up in school and she had to get us, they would get us again when we got back. Now, that's for sure. But that's how we managed.	20:24
Karen Ferguson	Right. Did you like school?	20:59
Mary Rogers	Not necessarily.	21:06
Karen Ferguson	No?	21:11
Mary Rogers	This is what thing that we had to do. This was on the agenda.	21:11
Karen Ferguson	Right. What didn't you like about school?	21:13
Mary Rogers	Too confining. We're used to being your own boss. Being the boss. You couldn't be the boss at school too.	21:15
Karen Ferguson	Right.	21:24
Mary Rogers	Well, I don't know. I am so sorry that I didn't apply myself because I could have done better. Much, much, much better. And I guess maybe I wanted to play.	21:24
Karen Ferguson	Were your parents very involved in your schooling?	21:51
Mary Rogers	Yes, we was growing up. Yeah. Like you talking about attending PTA and working with the teachers and.	21:55
Karen Ferguson	Making sure you do your homework.	22:04
Mary Rogers	Oh yes. Well now I did. It was something about homework that I liked to do and maybe I didn't dislike school all that much.	22:06
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	22:11
Mary Rogers	It wasn't one of my favorites, I'll tell you that.	22:11
Karen Ferguson	Well, you did you have enough time to do your lessons at home? You were doing so much work.	22:18
Mary Rogers	Yeah, that geometry was my Waterloo. And I would study of those theorems more or less when I would be making the biscuits. I'd be doing the theorems. Theorems and studying my English. And we stood it all the way on the school bus all the way to school. You get with a gang that it likes to study. You get with them and then you start arguing and say this way and then they'll tell you no, it's like this. So you learn a lot like that. You say it wrong so you can get, that's how we did when I was in nurses training. We would all get together and study it. And that's how, listen, you get your lesson then. And this is the way we would be on that school bus, go get on that bus and study our lesson, all that. We didn't have some teachers, you better get back the night before, because you had it coming if you were not quite right. But the teachers would really get you if you didn't get your lesson, you didn't want to be embarrassed.	22:24
Karen Ferguson	What would they do to you if you didn't know?	23:30
Mary Rogers	Well, they had little things that they did. You were smaller. You get in the corner and they'll put a dunce cap on you. I don't think they do that now.	23:31
Karen Ferguson	No.	23:41
Mary Rogers	And I have actually had been paddled in my hands for not being able to get my lesson. First day in high school, they can just give you a D or E or something like that. Now that's just as bad as a whipping.	23:43
Karen Ferguson	Right. Do you remember a favorite teacher?	23:56
Mary Rogers	I didn't have a favorite teacher in the elementary school, but I did. I had some favorite teachers in high school. I had my English teacher and she was a good friend of mine. Maybe I didn't. Well, they were all so good to me though. And they were just so understanding. Really, they were really understanding. They knew my situation.	24:03
Karen Ferguson	Right.	24:36
Mary Rogers	And they worked with me faithfully.	24:38
Karen Ferguson	What would they do for you because?	24:41
Mary Rogers	They would make sure that I got my assignments and if I missed a test, they would let me come in and make the test up. Things like that. And the principal, this nurse that was my model. Well, she was the public health nurse in the community. Her husband was the principal of the high school.	24:45
Karen Ferguson	Oh, okay.	25:10
Mary Rogers	He gave me a, I forgot about that. I did have a job. I was working high school for $3 a month. $3 a month and looked like 50. And so he let me clean the teacherage.	25:12
Karen Ferguson	Oh, okay.	25:29
Mary Rogers	I would go, I had a period. I did not, in my activity period, I worked. I went over to that school and cleaned that teacherage up. And he just taught me a lot too because he move around in that, he'll go around the edges of that table and look at it and there was any dust, he let me know.	25:32
Karen Ferguson	Right.	25:49
Mary Rogers	And so I got a great education from that too.	25:51
Karen Ferguson	Did your teachers ever play favorite in school?	25:57
Mary Rogers	We thought they did.	26:01
Karen Ferguson	Who did you think they played favorite?	26:01
Mary Rogers	Well, I mean sometimes they would be favorite to me, and then sometimes they'd be fair to some of the others. All depend. They had the different reasons for favoritism.	26:06
Karen Ferguson	Right.	26:17
Mary Rogers	Because sometimes you have a good student, they would get all As, they deserve favoritism.	26:19
Karen Ferguson	Right.	26:29
Mary Rogers	Well, I didn't think there was favoritism. I just thought they were really being considerate.	26:36
Karen Ferguson	Right. How much schooling were your parents able to get?	26:42
Mary Rogers	How much what?	26:51
Karen Ferguson	Schooling, how much?	26:52
Mary Rogers	Oh, now my mother, I think she was about 5th grader.	26:53
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	26:57
Mary Rogers	And Daddy may have been about 7th or 8th grader. 8th grade.	26:57
Karen Ferguson	So you were really, were able to go beyond, much beyond.	27:02
Mary Rogers	Yes, uh-huh.	27:06
Karen Ferguson	Where did you go to high school?	27:08
Mary Rogers	Eastman High School.	27:11
Karen Ferguson	Okay. And did you enjoy, did you like that?	27:14
Mary Rogers	Yes, I did.	27:16
Karen Ferguson	Better than elementary school?	27:17
Mary Rogers	Did what?	27:18
Karen Ferguson	Better than elementary school?	27:19
Mary Rogers	Yes, uh-huh. Yes, because we got to ride on the school bus.	27:24
Karen Ferguson	Right. When you went to high school.	27:25
Mary Rogers	It was a long ways though. It was a long ways, but I didn't realize it was a long ways then I do now. I wouldn't want my children to have to do that for anything.	27:27
Karen Ferguson	Right. How far was it? How long did it take you?	27:37
Mary Rogers	It was 30 miles. It was 15 miles one way. 30 miles round trip. And you knew how hungry you can be in the evening. But that was another thing that my father would do. He would always be back there. He would have our dinner ready when we got back.	27:39
Karen Ferguson	So he cooked?	27:56
Mary Rogers	Yes sirree. Yeah, he did. He cooked, and all my brothers can cook.	27:59
Karen Ferguson	Do you think they would've learned to do that if your mother hadn't died?	28:05
Mary Rogers	Yeah, because she believed in teaching the boys like she did girls.	28:09
Karen Ferguson	Oh, really? Was that unusual?	28:12
Mary Rogers	Sort of. All the mothers in that community didn't do it.	28:15
Karen Ferguson	Right. When you were at high school, what kind of organizations were you involved in?	28:20
Mary Rogers	I was in the Home Economic Club, Glee Club and can't sing a bit. A Science Club and—well, we didn't have too much. They used to in high school. That was about the only thing I remember being in, because we didn't have any other clubs.	28:28
Karen Ferguson	Did many, the children that you went to elementary school, did they go on to high school?	29:21
Mary Rogers	I tell you, we had, it was eight, I believe, in that class. And three finished.	29:29
Karen Ferguson	Right. Okay. Just eight people in the whole class in high school?	29:36
Mary Rogers	Mm-hmm.	29:38
Karen Ferguson	So only eight people entered with you?	29:40
Mary Rogers	Mm-hmm.	29:44
Karen Ferguson	So most children didn't go to high school.	29:45
Mary Rogers	That's right. My high school class started off with 103. And at the end of the four years, it was 35.	29:47
Karen Ferguson	Why did people drop out?	30:00
Mary Rogers	Well, for a lot of them was they were not interested. And some of them didn't have the encouragement at home and, well, I wouldn't say they wouldn't be, they were not able to. And a lot of them, they wouldn't want to go to high school. They hate going to high school, but I went to high school with something great and you just had to be all dressed up and all fine and everything. And some of them said they didn't have adequate clothes to go with that wouldn't necessarily sew.	30:01
Karen Ferguson	Right.	30:48
Mary Rogers	So you just wear what you have. Just keep it clean.	30:48
Karen Ferguson	Right. Did more girls than boys go to high school?	30:55
Mary Rogers	Let's see. Yes because, no, we had quite a few boys. But now after that eight, only one was a boy. And more girls graduated than boys.	31:00
Karen Ferguson	Were you allowed to go out with boys when you were in high school, to court?	31:24
Mary Rogers	Did I like to?	31:27
Karen Ferguson	Were you allowed by your father to see boys when you were in high school?	31:28
Mary Rogers	No.	31:34
Karen Ferguson	No?	31:34
Mary Rogers	Not yet. Not yet.	31:36
Karen Ferguson	Were other people, were other girls seeing boys?	31:42
Mary Rogers	Some of them. Some of them had, their mothers were not as strict as our people as our parents were. 16, 17. We had company at home. But definitely no going out.	31:45
Karen Ferguson	Now, how did you decide to be a nurse? You said that this woman, this public health nurse encouraged you. So you knew her all the way through high school?	32:12
Mary Rogers	That's right. When I was seven years old, she used to come to our house to see my mother. My mother, after I said she was ailing, but I think my mother had about, she had two children after she became ill. And this public health nurse, I could see her right now, she'd come to the house and she would do my mother's urine and then things that public health nurses do.	32:21
Karen Ferguson	Right.	32:44
Mary Rogers	And I said, "I think I'm going to be a nurse too." She said, "Yes, you are." And from that very day, she just kept nurturing me along. And when I finished I said, "Well, Lord, I don't see how—", we had done all this research and finding different schools and oh, I just wanted to go. I even had the ambition to go to Vanderbilt and you know I could have never entered, gotten into that school. But the Lord opened up the way so that I could go to Kate B. Reynolds Memorial Hospital in Winston-Salem.	32:45
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	33:22
Mary Rogers	She had provided this school for the Blacks. And that's where I started off.	33:23
Karen Ferguson	Right. Now, before you met this woman, did your brothers and sisters go to school after high school?	33:36
Mary Rogers	No.	33:42
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	33:42
Mary Rogers	They didn't.	33:43
Karen Ferguson	You were the only one?	33:43
Mary Rogers	That's right.	33:46
Karen Ferguson	And you think it was all because of this woman? Or was there anything else that encouraged you to go?	33:49
Mary Rogers	And the cotton field. No, I don't know. I just always said you wanted to just do better if I could.	33:59
Karen Ferguson	Was it a big difference for you to go to Winston-Salem?	34:03
Mary Rogers	Was a big difference?	34:07
Karen Ferguson	For you from moving from the country to the city?	34:08
Mary Rogers	Yes, indeed. Now that was a transition. That was a transition.	34:11
Karen Ferguson	Right.	34:17
Mary Rogers	Away. Oh, that's a long way. Well really, it took about seven hours to get home from Winston-Salem at that time. And I didn't get home except Christmas and a week in the summer. No, I didn't even come home at Christmastime sometimes. We was just spending most of the time on highways going in.	34:17
Karen Ferguson	So you said you were homesick the first.	34:44
Mary Rogers	Oh, I was so homesick. I'd go to that bathroom and I would cry and cry, and cry, and cry. After they get that little cry, that was like a dose of medicine. And they'd tell me. And those, I didn't understand why those other girls were not crying. They were not home. Some of them had already been to college and been away from home. But I had never been away from home like that. I went up to take my pre interest test. And I said, I don't care if I didn't pass that test because I don't want to come back up there anyway.	34:46
Karen Ferguson	Right.	35:10
Mary Rogers	They told me to come on and I did, I went on up there and really, that was a new place, was nice place. I didn't get to appreciate it until I left there.	35:22
Karen Ferguson	Now, who paid for you to go to there?	35:30
Mary Rogers	Well, Uncle Sam did.	35:37
Karen Ferguson	Oh, okay.	35:38
Mary Rogers	Now, I did not sign up for the cadet program, but I reaped the benefit. I reaped the benefit from that program.	35:40
Karen Ferguson	Okay. So the government paid your tuition?	35:50
Mary Rogers	Yes.	35:51
Karen Ferguson	And your [indistinct 00:35:53]?	35:51
Mary Rogers	No, I didn't get any stipend. So I had brothers. I had three brothers in the Army and one would send money this month. The other one would send makeups in the next.	35:53
Karen Ferguson	Oh, okay.	36:03
Mary Rogers	And that's how I got through. And I worked some then too. There was a lady who was in charge of this outpatient department.	36:07
Karen Ferguson	Right.	36:17
Mary Rogers	At the health department. I would go over into, out there where that boy and Grace School of Medicine is. Get on the bus and go out there and cleaning her house. Every weekend.	36:18
Karen Ferguson	Doesn't look like you enjoyed that too much.	36:32
Mary Rogers	Huh?	36:35
Karen Ferguson	You didn't enjoy that too much, huh?	36:35
Mary Rogers	Well, I was so thankful.	36:37
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	36:39
Mary Rogers	I was so thankful that I could get extra money. And then there was another funeral home director was there and right down there at the nurse's home and she had some little girls, three little girls, and she needed a babysitter sometime. And they would let me go over and sit with them. And so that was another way I have some extra spinning change.	36:39
Karen Ferguson	Did you think you would've been able to go to nursing school if you hadn't been helped by the government?	37:15
Mary Rogers	It would've been hard. Very hard. I think my brothers would've sacrificed, after I got started, but looked like it wasn't going to get started. I could not see my way. I couldn't see my way. And there was a teacher who was teaching out there where I went to elementary school and she had been, I didn't know that she was really looking for something. And so she brought the pamphlet home to me. I had tried in Charlotte and I was just about to give up. And so this nurse came and somebody must have tipped her off and said, "I don't believe Rebecca's going to school." And so she came down there and she took me there. I could not back up now. I just have to, you got to do something.	37:28
Karen Ferguson	Right.	38:25
Mary Rogers	In other words, you got to try to find some kind of finances. And so this girl from Winston-Salem brought the information to me and I said, "Well this is great." But my brothers didn't want me to sign up to go into the service. And that's why I didn't get the government stipend.	38:25
Karen Ferguson	Right, okay. What kinds of things did you do for fun in Winston-Salem when you were there?	38:48
Mary Rogers	I just went to church.	39:01
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	39:01
Mary Rogers	I just went to church. I don't move any fun things that I did. I was a serious-minded person and I didn't have a whole lot of fun. And I should have because they had plenty of things I guess. Now, if there would be a busload of fellas to come over into the nurse's home, we would entertain them or I would fix, help with the food. But so far as intermingling with them, that was just not my cup of tea.	39:04
Karen Ferguson	So where would they come from, Winston-Salem?	39:32
Mary Rogers	Fort [indistinct 00:39:35] at Greensboro.	39:32
Karen Ferguson	Oh, so they were army.	39:32
Mary Rogers	Yes. And the house lady always just thought that they were such fine fellas. We were happy to prepare their food for them. And then we entertained the other girls when they're going back to Greensboro.	39:41
Karen Ferguson	Did you—	39:55
Mary Rogers	I guess that was USO, I guess.	39:56
Karen Ferguson	Did you join any organizations when you were in Winston-Salem?	39:58
Mary Rogers	No.	40:08
Karen Ferguson	Does it?	40:08
Mary Rogers	I don't remember any organization?	40:08
Karen Ferguson	Did nurses have sororities or?	40:22
Mary Rogers	No, we did not. We did not have sororities. It's just of late that they started having sororities.	40:26
Karen Ferguson	Right.	40:30
Mary Rogers	We didn't.	40:30
Karen Ferguson	So what did you do when you finished up at nursing school?	40:38
Mary Rogers	I stopped my nursing school?	40:41
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	40:42
Mary Rogers	I got a job in Tarbor], North Carolina, a 21 bed clinic. See, headed for home. Wanted to get back home so bad. And you knew you take anything to get back home. So I stopped there and worked there six months. Then I went back to North Carolina Central to study public health.	40:48
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	41:02
Mary Rogers	And I went to say I went there a year and a half, and I got a job here in Halifax County. I was obligating. I got a scholarship to do public health from the State Department.	41:06
Karen Ferguson	Right.	41:24
Mary Rogers	And I was obligated to work two years in the Depressed areas. And I stayed at 31. You see, and I should have maybe.	41:26
Karen Ferguson	So you were 31 years in Halifax County?	41:41
Mary Rogers	Yes.	41:43
Karen Ferguson	Now what was that like? What kind? What you worked for the county government?	41:45
Mary Rogers	Well, local. Yes, that's right. County government.	41:53
Karen Ferguson	So they had Black nurses, public health?	41:58
Mary Rogers	Well, this Black nurse that was my role model, was the first Black nurse. She was a first nurse in Halifax County, public health nurse in Halifax County. And so she was just special and she was there. And then we had a super health officer. This man could see way over in the future.	42:00
Karen Ferguson	Right.	42:29
Mary Rogers	I mean, years ahead of most of the doctors. And he was just a conscientious, smart man and he wanted you to do your work. So then I came here and had an interview with them. I think maybe he interviewed me because of her. And I came here to work and on probation for two years. And I stayed long. I mean, right.	42:31
Karen Ferguson	Did you face much discrimination on the job?	43:04
Mary Rogers	Mm-hmm.	43:08
Karen Ferguson	What kinds of things?	43:09
Mary Rogers	Well, a lot of times I was discriminated against. And you could see the people being discriminated when you work in a setting where you had to serve both races.	43:13
Karen Ferguson	But now is this after, when you started, did you just have Black clients or did you—Black patients?	43:35
Mary Rogers	Yeah. That's mostly what we dealt with was Black patients. Right.	43:43
Karen Ferguson	What kinds of conditions did you see in the county when you started doing that? What was the—?	43:49
Mary Rogers	We have high infant death rate. A lot of unwed mothers, syphilis and gonorrhea, venereal diseases, tuberculosis, deep bone defects.	44:03
Karen Ferguson	Right.	44:30
Mary Rogers	Just all, they were the major things.	44:37
Karen Ferguson	Right. Were there midwives? Were midwives—	44:40
Mary Rogers	Yes, had midwives and midwife deliverers.	44:45
Karen Ferguson	Right. What do you think of that? What you think of midwives?	44:48
Mary Rogers	Well, I just thought it was just time for us to do better.	44:51
Karen Ferguson	Right.	44:58
Mary Rogers	I did. And they were just not trained like midwives should be trained and I'm sure there are a lot of things that they did that we never really ever know that they did. But the ones that we had were gracious ladies.	44:58
Karen Ferguson	Did you work with them at all?	45:22
Mary Rogers	Yes, I did. They were under our supervision. If this midwife lived in your area, she was your midwife.	45:23
Karen Ferguson	Did she have the midwives have to register with you?	45:33
Mary Rogers	Right, register. They had register. They had that 10 classes and they had their 10 clinics too.	45:38
Karen Ferguson	Now, were these the same midwives who had always delivered children?	45:44
Mary Rogers	Yes.	45:47
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	45:47
Mary Rogers	Yeah.	45:49
Karen Ferguson	So for the first time, they were regulated or—?	45:50
Mary Rogers	Say what?	45:54
Karen Ferguson	Regulated? They were regulated by the County?	45:55
Mary Rogers	Right. As I say, the man, the health officer was brilliant, honey. He covered everybody.	45:58
Karen Ferguson	Right.	46:03
Mary Rogers	He really did his job. He did his job. He was concerned about environmental and environment. He knew what he was doing.	46:04
Karen Ferguson	Right.	46:16
Mary Rogers	He was just a joy to work for him. You had to work hard, but it was a joy to work for him.	46:19
Karen Ferguson	Now, did—	46:23

Karen Ferguson	What were the biggest changes that you saw in the condition of Black people in this county over the 30 years that you were working as a public health nurse?	0:02
Mary Rogers	I think the income has improved greatly.	0:13
Karen Ferguson	Right.	0:20
Mary Rogers	More jobs for us. We got more education. That's the income and just this overall economic situation has improved.	0:20
Karen Ferguson	Has there been anything that's gotten worse?	0:39
Mary Rogers	Well, I don't know how you would put this, but this violence that we have is the worst thing that I hear. And then the drug activity.	0:49
Karen Ferguson	Right.	1:10
Mary Rogers	This is just a thing that we didn't have when I came here. I felt free and comfortable to go in anybody's house in the community, but I couldn't do that now.	1:12
Karen Ferguson	Right.	1:21
Mary Rogers	And they always would respect the public health nurse. See, the White nurses didn't have any trouble.	1:23
Karen Ferguson	Right. So did the White nurses serve Black patients?	1:32
Mary Rogers	Yes.	1:33
Karen Ferguson	All the time you were working?	1:33
Mary Rogers	Yes.	1:36
Karen Ferguson	Okay. But you wouldn't serve White patients?	1:37
Mary Rogers	After 1964 I did.	1:40
Karen Ferguson	Okay. Did you get married? Ever get married?	1:48
Mary Rogers	Did what?	1:49
Karen Ferguson	Did you ever get married?	1:51
Mary Rogers	Yes. Yes.	1:52
Karen Ferguson	Where did you meet your husband and when did you meet him?	1:54
Mary Rogers	I met him the year after I came to the county to work.	1:58
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	2:03
Mary Rogers	His brother lived up there on the other end, and he came to Edgecombe County to teach.	2:11
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	2:13
Mary Rogers	And we were married, I guess maybe 17 months after that.	2:16
Karen Ferguson	Now you were living on your own when you met him?	2:23
Mary Rogers	Yes, we were. You mean independently from my family?	2:28
Karen Ferguson	You were living by yourself when you met him?	2:33
Mary Rogers	Well, I was living with my brother. My brother and I were living together.	2:36
Karen Ferguson	And did you live in Enfield here?	2:41
Mary Rogers	Mm-hmm.	2:41
Karen Ferguson	Oh, okay. So what was your courtship like with him, your husband?	2:44
Mary Rogers	Courtship?	2:48
Karen Ferguson	Mm-hmm.	2:49
Mary Rogers	Now that was just fun. It was just the happiest. He was such a nice person and both of us were really up in years when we met each other.	2:50
Karen Ferguson	Okay. So how old were you?	3:00
Mary Rogers	I was 28 I believe, and he was around—I think he was about 31. And because both of us had to look out for ourselves and getting an education, because the family wasn't able to give us a lot of push.	3:04
Karen Ferguson	Right.	3:19
Mary Rogers	And that's how I got to meet him. And he was from—he's a North Carolinian though. The courtship was—now how do you mean?	3:22
Karen Ferguson	Well, what did you do? What did you do together?	3:39
Mary Rogers	Oh yeah. Well a lot of times we would carry the others. We had to go to something like a junior, senior prom if the parents would allow their daughter to go along with us. So we were more or less chaperones really. That's what we were. And we would go to the movies sometimes. He didn't care a whole lot about movies. We would go to concerts and well, we would go to a dance every now and then. They had the spring dances and Christmas dances and like that. And let's see, what else did we do? I don't know. We didn't do anything spectacular because wasn't much here to do really.	3:45
Karen Ferguson	Right, right.	4:36
Mary Rogers	This is a sort of a depressed area. I don't know how we managed to stay here. We got an opportunity to leave here too, when my first child was born, but he didn't want to leave.	4:37
Karen Ferguson	Did you want to leave?	4:53
Mary Rogers	I sure did.	4:54
Karen Ferguson	And why did you want to leave?	4:54
Mary Rogers	Yeah, I wanted—because it looked like I might be able to do better. And. we were going to a county that was really, they say this was pretty good, but I don't know, he just didn't even want to go. I was surprised at him not wanting to go. So he was working with veterans at that time and he got this opportunity up there. We went up for an interview and things just didn't look to suit him. He said, "Shucks, I believe I'll stay where I am." And it may have been that we might not have had the funds to move at the time. A lot of things entered the picture.	4:55
Karen Ferguson	Now, where did you get married?	5:45
Mary Rogers	Near what town or what?	5:50
Karen Ferguson	What was your marriage like? Where did you go to get married?	5:50
Mary Rogers	In a parsonage. We used to go to this man's church and he was a friend of—This minister was a friend of his family. And we got married and went to Washington D.C, and came right back and went to work Monday.	5:52
Karen Ferguson	So you went for one little—	6:12
Mary Rogers	And it was very short. We thought we'd have one after this, but no such thing.	6:13
Karen Ferguson	Right. Now was your family or anybody else pressuring you to get married since you were a bit older?	6:20
Mary Rogers	No. No they were not.	6:26
Karen Ferguson	Right. So it was acceptable for you to be single?	6:28
Mary Rogers	Well, I think so because I had about decided I was going to have to be a career woman anyway. Since I didn't get married at that usual time when my other classmates got married. And so I was just about ready to settle back and be a career lady.	6:36
Karen Ferguson	Right.	7:01
Mary Rogers	And he came along and swept me off my feet. He sure did. Yeah. He has had a stroke. He's not doing so well. Well, I'll say he's doing better than he's been doing, but he sort of takes it easy.	7:01
Karen Ferguson	Right. Now, after married and started having your family and so on, what kind of organizations did you belong to? Or did you belong to any organizations?	7:18
Mary Rogers	I belonged to the Missionary Society, Frontiers International. I belong to the Deaconess Club in my church. Belong to the Flower Garden Club, the State Nurses Association, National Nurses Association. And then we have another little club, just nurses belong to that. It's called it the Carrie Broadfoot Nurses Club. I guess that's about it.	7:35
Karen Ferguson	What did these organizations add to your life? What did they mean to you to belong to these organizations?	8:36
Mary Rogers	Well because the missionary thing that's a Christian organization, and the Frontiers International is sort of a civic organization where we'd be concerned about what's going on in the community, and for the betterment of people, period. And let's see, what was the other one? Well, and you know the nursing organization will be pertaining to nursing. And this Frontiers International level he belonged to, we were the auxiliary to it. And well, the Frontiers International, we were responsible for the—they just studied this disease, vitiligo. And they always made a contribution to that. But they made other contributions to other organizations too.	8:45
Karen Ferguson	Right.	9:58
Mary Rogers	Like NAACP and civic organizations of that nature.	10:00
Karen Ferguson	Now we haven't really talked very much about church. You went to a church that was in the school when you were growing up?	10:09
Mary Rogers	Yes.	10:14
Karen Ferguson	And was this a Baptist?	10:16
Mary Rogers	That's where we had our Sunday school. Baptist is right.	10:17
Karen Ferguson	Baptist?	10:18
Mary Rogers	And Sunday School. See, because we'd go there every Sunday.	10:18
Karen Ferguson	Right. Oh, and then you belonged to the school, this church that was a few miles away, several miles away?	10:19
Mary Rogers	Yes. And they had service once a month.	10:26
Karen Ferguson	What was the church's role in your community when you were growing up and then when you became a grown woman back here in Enfield?	10:29
Mary Rogers	Let's see. You mean what did it have to offer us?	10:48
Karen Ferguson	Yeah.	10:54
Mary Rogers	Accepted our religious instruction.	10:54
Karen Ferguson	Right. What sort of—	10:58
Mary Rogers	Oh, I see.	11:01
Karen Ferguson	—non-spiritual.	11:03
Mary Rogers	If there was a need like food and clothing and things like that. Yeah. Well anybody who would get into difficulty, they would come to the rescue. Fire. If somebody had lost a home, somebody lost a family member and needed assistance, they would help out in that situation. And the church and school were sort of separate.	11:09
Karen Ferguson	How so?	11:54
Mary Rogers	I don't believe the church was as strong and nurturing and fostering the schools like they should.	11:57
Karen Ferguson	Oh, okay.	12:09
Mary Rogers	So far as discipline and all. We may have been able to do a little bit better. Make things better than they are now. Things just going rock bottom for some reason. I don't know what it is. But I think that. And view the fact that you let the girl—like those people who would be an asset so far as Christian education, this was stopped. Remember how we used—you don't know anything about it because it probably didn't—you could feel free to have a devotion in the morning before you start the day. And I think this is the reason the situation is in such a chaos now. To me, it's chaotic when people are taking guns to school and killing and carrying on.	12:10
Karen Ferguson	When did you first vote?	13:13
Mary Rogers	After I was married. And I think we went to vote and we started voting in about 1950.	13:17
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	13:26
Mary Rogers	At '51, something like that.	13:27
Karen Ferguson	And did you have any trouble registering?	13:28
Mary Rogers	No, we didn't.	13:33
Karen Ferguson	Right. But other people did?	13:38
Mary Rogers	Some did.	13:40
Karen Ferguson	Why was that?	13:44
Mary Rogers	You had to read the preamble to the Constitution, I believe. And if you didn't read that to suit them, then you didn't register.	13:51
Karen Ferguson	But they never tried to tell you that you hadn't read it properly or anything like that?	13:59
Mary Rogers	They never did.	14:02
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	14:02
Mary Rogers	I don't think so. They may have told someone, I never heard about it.	14:02
Karen Ferguson	Right. Okay. The last question I wanted to ask you was, if you feel like anybody has ever treated you like a second class citizen?	14:17
Mary Rogers	Well, I would think that—you mean that I have been denied something?	14:36
Karen Ferguson	Yeah. Do you feel like anybody ever treated you, maybe not generally, but maybe more specifically a situation that you've been in?	14:56
Mary Rogers	I guess maybe it may have happened to me in the workplace.	15:15
Karen Ferguson	Right. Could you talk a little bit about that? Or if you don't want to, you don't have to.	15:20
Mary Rogers	I don't want to.	15:23
Karen Ferguson	Okay, that's fine. That's fine. Okay. Well I thank you very much for spending this time with me today.	15:28
Mary Rogers	Well I'm just sorry, but I just wouldn't want to say anything that is—	15:30
Karen Ferguson	No, no, that's fine. I was about to end anyway. I didn't mean to do it.	15:40
Mary Rogers	Well that's all right. But I would like to say though that, there have been times when I could have maybe gone up, but because of the color of my skin, I didn't.	15:46
Karen Ferguson	Right.	16:02
Mary Rogers	Opportunities could have been thrown my way that didn't get thrown my way.	16:05
Karen Ferguson	Why don't I put the question this way, because I'm assuming some of this stuff happened after integration, after '64?	16:11
Mary Rogers	Yes, that's right.	16:22
Karen Ferguson	What do you think though, that the system of segregation before 1964, how has it affected your life? Do you think you had fewer opportunities because of that?	16:24
Mary Rogers	We have more opportunities since the 1964 Supreme Court decision.	16:35
Karen Ferguson	Right. How do you think your life would've been different if you hadn't been living under segregation?	16:45
Mary Rogers	I could not have gone to school, I don't believe. And I couldn't have excelled. Well, I will say maybe I haven't excelled, but maybe I couldn't have had the opportunity to do what I had done if I had done anything.	16:51
Karen Ferguson	Right. If it hadn't ended? If segregation hadn't ended?	17:07
Mary Rogers	That's right.	17:10
Karen Ferguson	Okay.	17:11
Mary Rogers	You see, because opportunities opened up—just opened up after that.	17:12
Karen Ferguson	But if there hadn't been segregation when you were a little girl and when you went to school and so on, do you think your life would've been different if there hadn't been?	17:21
Mary Rogers	I would think so.	17:33
Karen Ferguson	Right. Okay.	17:34
Mary Rogers	Yeah, because you would have no fear. You would be comfortable with all colors.	17:36
Karen Ferguson	Right. Were you afraid of White people when you were young?	17:49
Mary Rogers	No, I wasn't because I—I don't know what I want to say, but in other words, they didn't bother us and we didn't bother them.	17:58
Karen Ferguson	Right. Yeah.	18:03
Mary Rogers	But nobody has ever taught us that they were different or that they were not kind or anything like that. And I guess, because I had a good working relationship with these people that I was working with. And when I would have to go to Chapel Hill or Duke to those seminars and things, there wasn't no problem.	18:04
Karen Ferguson	Right.	18:39
Mary Rogers	No problem. You'd never know the difference.	18:41
Karen Ferguson	Okay. All right.	18:47
Mary Rogers	Now tell me, will you screen this information?	18:51
Karen Ferguson	Okay. At the end, we can do this first if you like, in order for the people to be able to listen to these tapes, you have to sign a release form. But if you want to place a restriction on its use, you may. You can do it without restrictions of course. But the kinds of restrictions people have put on it have been things like closing the interview until a certain time and closing the interview during your lifetime, for example. Or more commonly, people have put a restriction that if the interview is to be used in any kind of publication, that your permission must be obtained before that.	18:54
Mary Rogers	And I don't think my information was worth you using in no publication.	19:47
Karen Ferguson	Right.	19:52
Mary Rogers	Can you play some of it back?	19:55
Karen Ferguson	If you want to listen to some.	19:57

Item Info

Title:

Mary Rogers interview recording, 1993 July 01

Date:

July 1, 1993

Creator:

Rogers, Mary

Contributor:

Ferguson, Karen

Description:

Name: Mary Rogers; Date of birth: 1924-06-10; Place of birth: Halifax Co., NC; Occupation(s): nursing; health services; Residence: Enfield, NC
Informant ID: 161; Interviewed by: Karen Ferguson.

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Language:

English

Digital Collection:

Behind the Veil

Source Collection:

Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South interviews, photographs, and project records, circa 1864-2011, bulk 1990-1999

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Provenance:

The David M. Rubenstein Rare Book and Manuscript Library acquired the Records of the Behind the Veil Oral History Project from the Duke University Center for Documentary Studies in 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002.

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Limited Re-Use

CC BY-NC 4.0

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Copyright for content created by the Behind the Veil project is held by Duke University and made available to the public using a Creative Commons Attribution / Non-commercial (CC-BY-NC) license.

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Interview number: 421
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Mary Rogers interview recording, 1993 July 01

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1. Mary Rogers administrative file, 1993

John Hope Franklin Research Center

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Mary Rogers interview recording, 1993 July 01

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John Hope Franklin Research Center

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