Sawah, Tariq al- - Interview master file
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Cameraman | Rolling. | 0:05 |
Interviewer | Okay, good morning. | 0:05 |
- | Morning, morning. | 0:07 |
Interviewer | We are very grateful to you | 0:09 |
for participating in the Witness to Guantanamo project. | 0:10 | |
We invite you to speak of your | 0:14 | |
experiences in Guantanamo Bay Prison, | 0:16 | |
and we are hoping to provide you | 0:19 | |
with an opportunity to tell | 0:21 | |
your story to the world. | 0:23 | |
- | Okay. | 0:25 |
Interviewer | We're creating an archive of stories | 0:26 |
so that people in America and around the world | 0:28 | |
will have a better opportunity | 0:32 | |
to understand what happened. | 0:34 | |
Future generations must know | 0:37 | |
what happened in Guantanamo, | 0:39 | |
and by telling your story, | 0:41 | |
you're contributing to history. | 0:42 | |
We appreciate your willingness | 0:45 | |
to speak with us today. | 0:46 | |
And if there's any time | 0:48 | |
you'd like to take a break, | 0:49 | |
please let us know. | 0:51 | |
And if there's something that you said | 0:52 | |
that you want us to either take out | 0:54 | |
or not reveal at the time, let us know, | 0:57 | |
and we can take care of that too. | 0:59 | |
And we'd like to begin | 1:03 | |
with some basic information, | 1:05 | |
if you wouldn't mind telling us your name, | 1:06 | |
and the year you were born, | 1:08 | |
and your age, and where you were born. | 1:11 | |
- | Yeah, my name is Tariq Mahmoud Ahmed al-Sawah, | 1:14 |
and I was born in 2nd November 1957 | 1:20 | |
in Alexandria, and I am Egyptian. | 1:26 | |
Interviewer | And where do you live today? | 1:31 |
- | I'm living now in Sarajevo | 1:33 |
in a special apartment for rent. | 1:36 | |
Interviewer | And how old are you today? | 1:41 |
- | You can find it. | 1:46 |
I'm approximately 59. | 1:48 | |
Interviewer | Okay, okay. | 1:51 |
When did you first get taken to Guantanamo? | 1:57 | |
Do you remember the date? | 2:00 | |
- | Not exactly because my memory | 2:02 |
now is not too good, | 2:04 | |
but as I read from the papers, | 2:07 | |
I went to Guantanamo from Kandahar at 2002. | 2:11 | |
Interviewer | And when were you released? | 2:17 |
- | Exactly, I was a released from Guantanamo | 2:21 |
at 20 January, 2016. | 2:22 | |
Interviewer | And do you know which month in 2002 | 2:29 |
you were taken to Guantanamo? | 2:31 | |
- | I don't recall, really. | 2:33 |
Interviewer | Was it the spring, | 2:35 |
or the summer, or the fall? | 2:36 | |
Would you know that? | 2:37 | |
- | It was winter. | 2:41 |
Interviewer | Winter, okay. | 2:44 |
- | Yeah, because when I wanted to... | 2:45 |
I think it was summer. | 2:54 | |
Interviewer | Okay. | 2:56 |
- | Summer 2002. | 2:57 |
Interviewer | Okay. | 2:58 |
- | Yeah. | 2:59 |
Interviewer | And, maybe we could begin | 3:00 |
if you could tell us | 3:02 | |
when you were first captured, where was that? | 3:03 | |
And what happened in where you were taken? | 3:06 | |
- | Yeah, I was a Taliban on the front line, | 3:08 |
and I was guarding. | 3:15 | |
There was no war, | 3:17 | |
people just sitting and talking. | 3:18 | |
There was no real war, | 3:24 | |
there was no fight at this time. | 3:25 | |
Accidentally, we heard that | 3:29 | |
there was big trouble | 3:32 | |
with United States of America, September 11. | 3:33 | |
I was there, and they said, | 3:37 | |
they're going to attack Afghanistan | 3:40 | |
and bombing Afghanistan. | 3:44 | |
I tried to go back, | 3:47 | |
to go out to some safe place, | 3:50 | |
other countries, but as I found out, | 3:52 | |
borders were completely closed after 9/11, | 3:56 | |
and it was very dangerous for me | 3:59 | |
to go anywhere from there, all right. | 4:01 | |
So I stayed. | 4:06 | |
There was some other people from Taliban, | 4:07 | |
from other Arab, and the bombing started, | 4:11 | |
and because of the strong bombing, | 4:15 | |
and vicious actions that happened | 4:20 | |
from bombing and killing, | 4:25 | |
Taliban, they left the lines, | 4:27 | |
and we didn't know that they are leaving. | 4:30 | |
They are fleeing from the lines. | 4:35 | |
So we, as a group, we left everything, | 4:39 | |
and we moved toward Jalalabad, | 4:47 | |
and we stayed in Jalalabad few days. | 4:50 | |
And the North Alliance, | 4:54 | |
they came and took the city too. | 4:56 | |
And we kept moving, moving to, | 4:59 | |
we said, my group, we said, | 5:01 | |
we will go to Pakistan. | 5:03 | |
So we went to the mountains | 5:07 | |
and we kept walking, walking. | 5:08 | |
We left everything, | 5:12 | |
we don't have anything to wear, | 5:13 | |
weapons, and anything, | 5:15 | |
or I had Kalashnikov when I was in the front | 5:17 | |
but because I was very heavy, | 5:21 | |
and I cannot run, and go up, | 5:23 | |
I left everything, and some other people too, | 5:26 | |
and we went to the tops of mountains, | 5:29 | |
as I recalled. | 5:33 | |
I knew, after that, these mountains | 5:34 | |
are called the Tora Bora Mountains. | 5:36 | |
And bombing was continuously, continuously, | 5:40 | |
and I saw massacres on the Tora Bora Mountains. | 5:45 | |
People were scattered pieces, | 5:52 | |
and were blood everywhere. | 5:55 | |
But we struggled, I kept moving, | 6:02 | |
and because of my weight, I was very slow, | 6:04 | |
but I kept moving. | 6:12 | |
I found somebody, I keep moving with him, | 6:13 | |
and they kept, of course, bombing, | 6:16 | |
and dropping very big bombs on towns | 6:19 | |
and maybe they used the ability, uranium, for... | 6:24 | |
I kept walking, walking, | 6:30 | |
and suddenly, I got shrapnels on my body | 6:31 | |
from I think it was at a bomb or regular bomb. | 6:35 | |
However it was, I got shrapnels in my leg, | 6:41 | |
shrapnels in my back. | 6:44 | |
And but I struggled, | 6:46 | |
I strived, I kept moving, | 6:50 | |
and moving towards the border of Pakistan. | 6:52 | |
And at certain time, I fell down. | 6:57 | |
I could not walk any longer | 7:03 | |
because of my wounds, | 7:06 | |
because of my suffering. | 7:07 | |
I didn't have food, | 7:10 | |
I didn't have water for a long distance, | 7:11 | |
maybe one week or more. | 7:15 | |
And some people from Afghanistan, | 7:20 | |
Afghani person, he took me to his home. | 7:26 | |
He took me to his home. | 7:30 | |
I was completely wounded. | 7:32 | |
And I tried to sleep at this night at his home | 7:34 | |
but the North Alliance, they came in the morning, | 7:39 | |
and they captured me and some other people, | 7:45 | |
I don't recall. | 7:48 | |
They were Arabs, two Mujahideen | 7:49 | |
but I don't recall their names | 7:51 | |
but they took me with other people, | 7:56 | |
and they held me in Jalalabad Prison for one night. | 7:59 | |
And after that, they took me to Kabul Prison. | 8:05 | |
I stayed in Kabul Prison about one month | 8:08 | |
'til the American forces, they came, | 8:12 | |
they took me in helicopter, | 8:16 | |
and they transferred me to Bagram | 8:20 | |
Concentration Camp Prison. | 8:25 | |
I stayed in Bagram few, | 8:29 | |
but I stayed in Bagram latest time, | 8:33 | |
and after that, they took me | 8:38 | |
back to Kandahar Airport. | 8:40 | |
It was also a concentration camp prison | 8:43 | |
for all people that are captured. | 8:47 | |
They captured people from different... | 8:50 | |
All the strangers, maybe, all Arabs, | 8:52 | |
or all foreigners, they were living in Afghanistan. | 8:54 | |
Even people who were married | 8:58 | |
and living in Afghanistan for a long time, | 9:00 | |
they took them, and they held us | 9:02 | |
in captures in this place in Kandahar Airport. | 9:04 | |
Little time after that, | 9:13 | |
they took us from Kandahar to Guantanamo here. | 9:16 | |
I think it was 2002. | 9:21 | |
Interviewer | When you were first captured, | 9:25 |
do you know when US came to Kabul, | 9:28 | |
do you know if US paid any money for you? | 9:31 | |
- | And I hear that, I am not sure | 9:34 |
because I don't, I should. | 9:36 | |
When I speak about this, | 9:38 | |
I should have evidence or prove it. | 9:39 | |
But as I hear then, it's a man who captured me. | 9:43 | |
His name was Haji Zaman, | 9:49 | |
And I hear around that they pay $5,000 | 9:52 | |
for each foreigner who are captured. | 9:56 | |
The North Alliance is giving him to them. | 9:58 | |
But I'm not certain. | 10:04 | |
I don't like to say something | 10:06 | |
I am not certain which... | 10:07 | |
But as I hear, they said | 10:09 | |
some people said that they pay | 10:14 | |
$5,000 for each captive. | 10:15 | |
And I heard when I was in Guantanamo | 10:19 | |
that Haji Zaman was assassinated | 10:27 | |
by a bomb or something. | 10:30 | |
Interviewer | And what about your injuries? | 10:32 |
Did anybody take care of them? | 10:33 | |
If you had shrapnel in your back, | 10:35 | |
and your legs, and your arms, | 10:38 | |
did someone take care of that? | 10:39 | |
- | Actually, when I was in Kabul prison, | 10:44 |
nobody took care of me. | 10:48 | |
The Afghani people, they are very, very poor people, | 10:50 | |
and have been poor in science and medication. | 10:57 | |
Some people came, nurses came from hospitals | 11:01 | |
but they didn't do anything. | 11:04 | |
But just to give me a guise, | 11:06 | |
I put it in my wounds, and that's it. | 11:07 | |
But really when I went to Bagram Concentration Camp, | 11:11 | |
there was good doctors, American doctors, | 11:17 | |
they took care of me, | 11:19 | |
and they took the shrapnels. | 11:20 | |
I had too much shrapnels in my hands, | 11:23 | |
and also, when I went to Guantanamo, | 11:26 | |
after released time, I went to doctors. | 11:31 | |
So they took the neck X-ray for my leg, | 11:35 | |
and I have shrapnel in my leg here, | 11:38 | |
they took it out, | 11:41 | |
and I'm grateful for this really. | 11:43 | |
Interviewer | And how were you treated | 11:46 |
both in Bagram and in Kandahar? | 11:48 | |
- | In Bagram, it was not free than Kandahar, | 11:54 |
and we were living in groups in cells. | 12:01 | |
And we could talk to each other in this basis. | 12:05 | |
And also, we can meet with the Red Cross ICRC, | 12:12 | |
and I appreciate their efforts. | 12:17 | |
So of course, they were good also. | 12:19 | |
They did too much to help us | 12:21 | |
and take care of our cases. | 12:24 | |
But we went to Kandahar, | 12:30 | |
it was very strong restrictions. | 12:32 | |
You cannot sit in groups. | 12:35 | |
You cannot pray standing. | 12:37 | |
We cannot talk to each other. | 12:40 | |
We cannot have anything, | 12:43 | |
any even a scratch in the sand, | 12:44 | |
it is not allowed. | 12:48 | |
It was very, very restricted and little tough, | 12:49 | |
but it is prison, concentration camp, | 12:55 | |
and situation was very bad. | 12:59 | |
And every person was irritated, | 13:01 | |
and people didn't know what to do, | 13:04 | |
or I feel this, and I sensed it. | 13:08 | |
Yeah, it was very hard situation, | 13:12 | |
and on both sides, for everyone. | 13:14 | |
Interviewer | Did you get beaten, | 13:20 |
or did you get mistreated at all | 13:21 | |
while you were in Kandahar? | 13:23 | |
- | I saw very bad treatment | 13:26 |
for many detainees to get information from them. | 13:29 | |
They have containers, what I saw, | 13:35 | |
a big container in heat. | 13:38 | |
They were keeping people there. | 13:40 | |
They learned to know how to do their needs | 13:44 | |
in hot metal containers, like torture, | 13:48 | |
to get information. | 13:52 | |
I saw in my eyes there was a very old man | 13:54 | |
about 90 years old or something. | 13:57 | |
They took him and dropped him on the ground | 14:01 | |
because he refused to walk with them. | 14:05 | |
He's very old, what he do? | 14:09 | |
He does not know who are these people, | 14:11 | |
and what they are doing, | 14:14 | |
and what they want to know. | 14:15 | |
He just he does not want to walk, | 14:17 | |
he has blood. | 14:20 | |
And they dropped him on the ground, | 14:22 | |
and they beat him. | 14:24 | |
It was really bad that I saw it. | 14:26 | |
Interviewer | Could you do anything about it? | 14:28 |
- | No, I was in my cell. | 14:30 |
I was restrained in, I mean, | 14:32 | |
confined in my cell, in the cell. | 14:35 | |
Interviewer | Did they know you spoke | 14:39 |
English when they- | 14:40 | |
- | Yeah, they know. | 14:42 |
Interviewer | Did that help you? | 14:42 |
- | Actually, I spoke English, I helped them. | 14:45 |
And it helped with me too. | 14:53 | |
I spoke to them, and we could | 14:58 | |
have some sort of conversation. | 15:00 | |
I spoke with some guards there, | 15:03 | |
and it was normal. | 15:05 | |
Even with the interrogator, | 15:09 | |
I have interrogation there in Kandahar, | 15:10 | |
and I could speak with the interrogator, | 15:13 | |
that was good. | 15:14 | |
Interviewer | Did they use you | 15:16 |
as a translator in Kandahar? | 15:17 | |
- | No, no, I just helped with people. | 15:19 |
Most of the people who are not English speakers, | 15:22 | |
and they don't know how to speak English. | 15:25 | |
So I tried to help little bit, | 15:29 | |
but not mostly because my condition | 15:32 | |
was not good too. | 15:34 | |
Interviewer | And then could you tell us about | 15:36 |
when you were taken to Guantanamo, | 15:39 | |
how that process worked? | 15:41 | |
- | When I was taken to Guantanamo from Kandahar? | 15:44 |
Interviewer | Ehm-hmm. | 15:46 |
- | Okay, they took us to a tent, | 15:47 |
and they took off our clothes. | 15:55 | |
They cut it with scissors, | 15:57 | |
and they gave us orange uniform | 15:59 | |
for prisoners, I think, or for detainees. | 16:02 | |
And of course, we were shackled, restrained, | 16:05 | |
and they moved us in lines to be transport in, | 16:09 | |
I think it was military airplane force. | 16:17 | |
And when we went inside, | 16:22 | |
they restrained us to the bottom of the airplane, | 16:25 | |
to the ground, where in the metal restraints, | 16:28 | |
and they moved us to Guantanamo in these airplanes. | 16:33 | |
Interviewer | Could you eat | 16:39 |
while you were on the plane? | 16:40 | |
- | Yeah. | 16:42 |
Interviewer | And did you have earmuffs | 16:43 |
and blindfolds on while you were on the plane? | 16:46 | |
- | Yeah, yeah, earmuffs, and blindfolded, | 16:49 |
and restrained, yeah. | 16:52 | |
Interviewer | Could you go to the bathroom | 16:55 |
while you were in there? | 16:56 | |
- | Yeah, yeah, they really or actually they... | 16:57 |
When I spoke English, | 17:01 | |
and they were feeling good with me. | 17:02 | |
So when I went there, | 17:06 | |
they took off my restraints, | 17:08 | |
and I could go to bathroom. | 17:09 | |
Interviewer | Where did you learn English? | 17:14 |
- | I studied English since | 17:16 |
the primary school, secondary school, | 17:18 | |
and I was in college of science, geology, | 17:20 | |
and all of our studies in college in English. | 17:25 | |
And also, I have 14 years in Guantanamo | 17:29 | |
talking English to the guards, | 17:34 | |
talking English to interrogators and... | 17:36 | |
Interviewer | Did you know you were going | 17:39 |
to go Guantanamo when they put you on that plane? | 17:40 | |
And did you know where Guantanamo was? | 17:42 | |
- | I don't have clear information | 17:46 |
or perfect information about this, | 17:48 | |
but all what I know is that | 17:51 | |
they are going to move us to Cuba | 17:53 | |
but where, we didn't know. | 17:55 | |
Interviewer | Were you afraid? | 17:58 |
Were you worried? | 17:59 | |
- | I don't say I'm brave or something | 18:02 |
but I say I didn't worry. | 18:04 | |
I have my God, I have God, and I trust Him, | 18:08 | |
and I'm sure that He will help me | 18:11 | |
anywhere and anytime. | 18:15 | |
Interviewer | And what do you think | 18:17 |
about the Americans doing this at that time? | 18:18 | |
And later on, we can talk about Guantanamo, | 18:20 | |
but just when they first held you, | 18:22 | |
and then put you on this plane to Guantanamo, | 18:25 | |
what did you think about the Americans | 18:26 | |
doing that at the time? | 18:28 | |
- | Because I was in that situation, | 18:31 |
and I know this there is a bad troubles | 18:33 | |
in the State and in Afghanistan, | 18:37 | |
I was ready for everything. | 18:40 | |
I had been in prison in Egypt in 1981 | 18:44 | |
with Islamic groups and I had get used for it. | 18:49 | |
Interviewer | So when you landed | 19:00 |
in Guantanamo, what happened, remember? | 19:01 | |
- | We landed, yeah. | 19:04 |
As I recall it, as I remember, we landed, | 19:05 | |
we went down to Guantanamo, | 19:08 | |
they cut our uniforms again, | 19:11 | |
and we went to shower. | 19:16 | |
And also, it is also in Bagram Airport, | 19:18 | |
they have medical tests, | 19:26 | |
and also some doctors, | 19:31 | |
and we took shower, and they gave us new clothes, | 19:33 | |
and they put us in the cells. | 19:40 | |
They moved us to cells, | 19:42 | |
and we started life in Guantanamo. | 19:45 | |
Interviewer | Was it in Camp X-Ray where you were taken | 19:47 |
or was he taken- | 19:49 | |
- | Actually, when I was there, | 19:50 |
there was no comebacks. | 19:53 | |
I think it was near to be closed. | 19:53 | |
I heard about it, but I didn't, | 19:57 | |
I haven't been there, | 19:58 | |
but I know stories about it. | 19:59 | |
Interviewer | And when you came to Guantanamo, | 20:02 |
did you think it's gonna be for a short time, | 20:04 | |
or long time, or not at all? | 20:06 | |
What were you thinking | 20:08 | |
when you first came there? | 20:09 | |
- | As I hear that these people will never go out, | 20:13 |
these people are going to die in Guantanamo, | 20:19 | |
these people are very dangerous people, | 20:23 | |
they are everything, | 20:26 | |
people like monsters, and Dracula, | 20:32 | |
or something like that. | 20:35 | |
I thought none of us will go out, yeah. | 20:39 | |
Interviewer | How did you feel about that? | 20:44 |
I give it up to God. | 20:50 | |
I give it up to God. | 20:53 | |
I didn't care really. | 20:56 | |
I know that I'll get out from God | 20:58 | |
because I was an honest person, | 21:01 | |
and I believe in God, | 21:06 | |
and I think that God will help me, | 21:08 | |
and He will take a good care of me. | 21:10 | |
But I felt I faced the pain too, | 21:17 | |
because I didn't know why. | 21:19 | |
Why they were going to kill me on the mountains? | 21:25 | |
I didn't do anything. | 21:28 | |
I was not from the Bin Laden group, | 21:29 | |
I just left Bosnia to have a home in Afghanistan, | 21:32 | |
and I could not go back to Bosnia, | 21:37 | |
I could not go out from Afghanistan | 21:41 | |
because of the accidents, | 21:44 | |
and it was like big trap. | 21:45 | |
As they say, wrong time, wrong place, | 21:47 | |
maybe wrong man too, (laughs) yeah. | 21:52 | |
Interviewer | Could you tell me | 21:57 |
about your first interrogation, | 21:58 | |
how that happened? | 21:59 | |
Do you remember that? | 22:00 | |
- | Yeah, first interrogations, | 22:02 |
I preferred not to be hurt | 22:08 | |
or not to be tough because first, | 22:11 | |
I am innocent person, and I trust God, | 22:13 | |
I believe in Him. | 22:16 | |
And I know also that they | 22:18 | |
don't have anything to talk about. | 22:20 | |
They are going to kill me, | 22:24 | |
to assassinate me on the border, | 22:25 | |
on the mountains. | 22:26 | |
They should be accused | 22:30 | |
for aggrieving and aggressive. | 22:31 | |
That the group I was moving with them | 22:34 | |
on the mountains were all mostly refugees. | 22:37 | |
They don't, they lost their... | 22:43 | |
Even there are people who were on the mountains, | 22:46 | |
they were holding garlic crushing coves or something. | 22:50 | |
It is nothing compared to tons of bones, | 22:55 | |
nothing compared to rifles and grenades, | 22:58 | |
and this hell of fire that was dropping | 23:03 | |
on the heads of the people at the mountains. | 23:06 | |
They attacked, they keep shipping them in. | 23:11 | |
People drive in ships, | 23:17 | |
they killed them by bombing. | 23:20 | |
I saw a woman on the mountains. | 23:25 | |
Some people, the whole families of Taliban, | 23:28 | |
they ran, families. | 23:31 | |
There was a batch of airplanes | 23:35 | |
chasing every person by X-ray, | 23:38 | |
infrared, heat sensors, | 23:41 | |
and with grenades, and rifles, (hums) | 23:45 | |
they scattered them pieces. | 23:48 | |
Carnage, it was big carnages | 23:53 | |
on Tora Bora, big carnages. | 23:54 | |
And it was not war at all, | 23:56 | |
it was not war, it was massacres, yeah. | 24:02 | |
Interviewer | So in the interrogation, | 24:05 |
what happened then? | 24:07 | |
- | In that interrogation, at first days, | 24:08 |
I was sick, I was sick, | 24:12 | |
and depressed, and frustrated | 24:15 | |
from what happened. | 24:17 | |
And for fear, for a long time, | 24:21 | |
I could not talk or speak about anything. | 24:25 | |
But after that, I met some good interrogators, | 24:28 | |
Richard Zuley, I think. | 24:35 | |
And he tried first to show some action, | 24:37 | |
like American movies. | 24:45 | |
Told him, "Quiet, I'm innocent person, | 24:48 | |
"and I'm not Al-Qaeda. | 24:50 | |
"You talk to me, I talk to you about anything. | 24:53 | |
"I didn't do anything, I'm not. | 24:56 | |
"You have no charges, you have nothing, | 25:00 | |
"and I'll help you, I'll talk to you | 25:03 | |
"because I'll talk about myself, | 25:06 | |
"I don't know anything about other people." | 25:08 | |
So okay, I spoke to him a little bit, | 25:11 | |
and I saw another man from, | 25:15 | |
I think he was Mexican or Puerto Rican interrogator, | 25:18 | |
who was bad in English too. | 25:21 | |
And he changed everything of my statements, | 25:25 | |
and he put me in big troubles after that | 25:32 | |
because of every integrator come, | 25:38 | |
he asking me about all the stuff. | 25:40 | |
And I said, "I didn't say this." | 25:44 | |
He said, "This Olisis," | 25:46 | |
his name is Olisis by the way, | 25:49 | |
"wrote this and said you told him this." | 25:50 | |
I said, "No, he does not know English. | 25:52 | |
"I teach him English." | 25:55 | |
And I was in very big trouble. | 25:59 | |
And after that, well, we have good relation. | 26:05 | |
And I believe that most of the people | 26:12 | |
in Guantanamo, they were here, | 26:17 | |
captured in Guantanamo are innocent people. | 26:19 | |
Innocent people, why? | 26:24 | |
People of Al-Qaeda, they're not | 26:25 | |
people who are interested in them. | 26:29 | |
They already from the first time | 26:30 | |
said they are Al-Qaeda, | 26:32 | |
"We don't care." | 26:34 | |
They took them to Washington to prison. | 26:36 | |
But the other people who are living now | 26:38 | |
in Guantanamo are... | 26:41 | |
Some people are bad in treatment | 26:44 | |
between guards and between detainees, | 26:46 | |
but they are not Al-Qaeda. | 26:49 | |
They do bad things together. | 26:51 | |
They swear, they threw, | 26:53 | |
they spit on each other, | 26:56 | |
they talk bad words. | 26:58 | |
But they are not Al-Qaeda, | 27:00 | |
they are under depression, under pressure, | 27:01 | |
and they don't know what to do. | 27:06 | |
They expressed themselves by bad manners. | 27:08 | |
And they said, "Okay, these people are dangerous." | 27:11 | |
Herds them to Washington, they are Al-Qaeda. | 27:14 | |
Just like that. | 27:17 | |
Any person who goes to Guantanamo | 27:19 | |
is Al-Qaeda, and dangerous, | 27:20 | |
and a terrorist. | 27:22 | |
What about the people who were dropping bombs | 27:24 | |
and killing people, innocent people | 27:28 | |
was out in interrogation? | 27:30 | |
Even they killed Bin Laden without interrogation. | 27:32 | |
Is it justice? | 27:37 | |
Interviewer | Were you kept in isolation | 27:42 |
while you were in Guantanamo? | 27:44 | |
- | Many times I was being isolated, | 27:45 |
too many times. | 27:47 | |
Interviewer | Why were you put in isolation? | 27:48 |
- | I don't know really. | 27:54 |
It is not a joy. (laughs) | 27:55 | |
Yeah, the first days when I was sick, | 27:58 | |
they put me in isolation | 28:03 | |
because I could not speak with them. | 28:04 | |
So this is always a way to put people | 28:06 | |
in isolation to make them talk | 28:09 | |
but they didn't understand that Mujahideen, | 28:12 | |
or Muslims, or people who worry of Afghanistan, | 28:15 | |
however they are, they don't respond to this | 28:19 | |
because they took the truce, | 28:26 | |
they speak perfectly, | 28:29 | |
but there they wanted to tell that they are Al-Qaeda. | 28:31 | |
Yeah, they took them to Guantanamo | 28:36 | |
to say that they're Al-Qaeda. | 28:38 | |
And these people should be Al-Qaeda | 28:40 | |
and keep in prison in Guantanamo forever. | 28:43 | |
I was telling them, | 28:48 | |
"No, there were people living in Afghanistan | 28:50 | |
"from the Russian war. | 28:53 | |
"They have families, | 28:55 | |
"they have children, and grandchildren. | 28:56 | |
"You took his grandchildren "and you put him in prison, | 29:02 | |
"and say, he's Al-Qaeda?" | 29:04 | |
It's just not reasonable. | 29:07 | |
But as I told before me, | 29:09 | |
it was interrogators who had good relation. | 29:12 | |
I have also good relations | 29:16 | |
with the commanders of Guantanamo too. | 29:17 | |
I have because I was trying to keep peace | 29:20 | |
between detainees and the United States Army | 29:29 | |
forces, guards, and commanders. | 29:35 | |
People were crazy, detainees, | 29:38 | |
and guards, and commanders. | 29:40 | |
It is like a big hive of bees | 29:44 | |
and exploded up, and every bees biting each other. | 29:48 | |
Interviewer | What did you do? | 29:54 |
- | But hives, but these bees are all | 29:55 |
of them are producing honey, | 29:57 | |
if you know what I mean. | 30:02 | |
So I'll try to settle up my mind, | 30:04 | |
and as I said, "Okay, these people are... | 30:07 | |
"People with Al-Qaeda already in Washington." | 30:10 | |
They said, "We're Al-Qaeda" | 30:14 | |
All right, they didn't care. | 30:15 | |
By the way, there were some people, | 30:19 | |
they came on my head, hundred, | 30:22 | |
"Tariq, you Al-Qaeda, Tariq, you Al-Qaeda, | 30:28 | |
"Tariq, you Al-Qaeda." | 30:30 | |
"Okay, I'm Al-Qaeda, then? | 30:31 | |
"What are you going to do to me? | 30:34 | |
"Going to kill me? | 30:35 | |
"Okay, I'll be Syahid. | 30:36 | |
"Al-Qaeda, okay, all right. | 30:37 | |
"I don't care." | 30:40 | |
Interviewer | Can I ask you | 30:44 |
how long you were in isolation? | 30:44 | |
The longest time, how many days or weeks? | 30:47 | |
- | Sometimes, maybe maximum was a month, | 30:50 |
but I was in isolation | 30:53 | |
most of my life in Guantanamo. | 30:55 | |
I live alone in segregation, | 30:58 | |
in segregated place. | 31:00 | |
Interviewer | And how was that? | 31:03 |
Could you talk to anybody through the cell doors, or? | 31:04 | |
- | I had a friend, Salahi. | 31:08 |
He was with me in Echo East, as they called it. | 31:11 | |
Interviewer | And you could talk to him? | 31:15 |
- | Yeah, we have a good relation, | 31:17 |
and also commanders came to me, | 31:18 | |
and interrogators came to me. | 31:21 | |
Interviewer | And did you, | 31:25 |
that's where you lived most | 31:27 | |
of your time in Guantanamo, in Echo East? | 31:28 | |
- | After 2005, I spoke to General Hood, | 31:33 |
General Jay Hood. | 31:38 | |
I sent him a recommendation because of my health | 31:40 | |
because of my relation with people. | 31:42 | |
I didn't like noisy. | 31:46 | |
People screaming and shouting, | 31:49 | |
and guards sprayed pepper spray, | 31:50 | |
and Air Forces, IRF, they came, | 31:54 | |
they take people by force to interrogation, | 31:58 | |
and they beat people in the rec yards, | 32:01 | |
and they fight each other. | 32:05 | |
It was like I told you, honeybees, hive exploded. | 32:07 | |
So I thought I said, "No, please, I need peace. | 32:11 | |
"Keep me in a separate place. | 32:15 | |
"I told you everything about me. | 32:17 | |
"I don't care what is going on. | 32:18 | |
"And so please, I need to be safe | 32:21 | |
"in a secured place." | 32:24 | |
So as General Hood, Jay Hood recommended, | 32:26 | |
I moved from the cells in the what do you call it? | 32:30 | |
Container or something, for what is cells, | 32:35 | |
and they took me in Echo East. | 32:38 | |
It was open place, | 32:42 | |
and have good place to live there. | 32:43 | |
And they took care really, the Navy, | 32:46 | |
Navy took good care of my health. | 32:48 | |
I appreciate it. | 32:51 | |
Doctors and nurses, they were coming to me. | 32:53 | |
I didn't need to be restrained. | 32:55 | |
I didn't need to, and it was good really. | 32:57 | |
Interviewer | Why do you think they treated you better | 33:03 |
than they treated other men? | 33:04 | |
- | First, they don't have anything against me, | 33:07 |
first, all right. | 33:09 | |
I was innocent person, | 33:12 | |
and I told them everything, | 33:13 | |
and I believe that every guard inside, | 33:15 | |
yeah, I demonstrated, they know | 33:17 | |
everything about me from Egypt, | 33:18 | |
from since I was in prison, 1981. | 33:21 | |
They have full information about | 33:24 | |
every person in Guantanamo. | 33:26 | |
But they just wanted to approve | 33:28 | |
some of them not approved, that he's doing job, | 33:31 | |
and he captured some people of Al-Qaeda. | 33:33 | |
Or maybe you were in suspicion | 33:39 | |
and obsession about people there. | 33:44 | |
Somebody said, "All people in Afghanistan are Al-Qaeda." | 33:47 | |
I said, "No, no." | 33:50 | |
There is people, who I said before, | 33:53 | |
living in Afghanistan since the Russian War. | 33:55 | |
Their descendants, their grandchildren born there. | 33:58 | |
Where they go? | 34:03 | |
People have political asylum | 34:05 | |
in Afghanistan with Taliban. | 34:07 | |
They protected them, they kept them there. | 34:09 | |
If they go to the countries, | 34:11 | |
they may be executed or kept in prison for life, | 34:12 | |
or they already have good life there. | 34:18 | |
Some other people like to live, | 34:21 | |
or all of them like to live | 34:23 | |
in Islamic State like Taliban. | 34:25 | |
And they found this state, | 34:28 | |
and they abide Syaria, as I think, | 34:31 | |
and people were happy there. | 34:34 | |
And suddenly, they found these accidents | 34:37 | |
and these catastrophes, as I say, in both sides. | 34:40 | |
And they were confused, what they do? | 34:46 | |
What they do? | 34:51 | |
Yeah. | 34:53 | |
Interviewer | Did you- | 34:54 |
- | By the way, I have here, | 34:55 |
there is these recommendations. | 34:58 | |
When you're asking me about, | 35:00 | |
I had a relation with Captain Dole Martin. | 35:02 | |
This is a recommendation from him. | 35:09 | |
Interviewer | Okay, have a look. | 35:12 |
You want to take a photo of it | 35:13 | |
or we can take a photo later. | 35:14 | |
Cameraman | Yeah. | 35:17 |
Interviewer | Shall we take a photo- | 35:17 |
- | Yeah, you can take this. This is from General Jay Hood. | 35:18 |
This is from my- | 35:21 | |
Interviewer | Can you tell us what General Jay Hood said? | 35:22 |
- | This is my interrogator, Richard Zuley. | 35:25 |
And this is from Admiral David, David Thomas, | 35:27 | |
and I'm grateful from him. | 35:32 | |
And this also from Vice Admiral Copeman, Harris Copeman. | 35:34 | |
Interviewer | And could you kind of summarize | 35:42 |
what each of these, what this is saying, generally? | 35:43 | |
- | It is literally the same. | 35:47 |
They said I am here, | 35:48 | |
there are statement from... | 35:51 | |
For example, and I'm grateful for him too, | 35:57 | |
Captain Dole Martin. | 36:00 | |
He said here, "And he was one of only | 36:01 | |
"a very few detainees who was not | 36:07 | |
"physically restrained in the prison." | 36:09 | |
He come to me in my cell many times. | 36:13 | |
"Over my nearly three years at Guantanamo, | 36:18 | |
"I spent a number of hours with ISN535, | 36:23 | |
"Tariq Mahmoud al-Sawah, during which | 36:26 | |
"he was never in any physical restraints | 36:29 | |
"and during such periods, | 36:32 | |
"I never felt uncomfortable or at risk." | 36:34 | |
With me, Tariq Mahmoud al-Sawah. | 36:39 | |
They say the same here, Vice Admiral Thomas Copeman, | 36:42 | |
and Rear Admiral David at this time. | 36:48 | |
My interrogator, Richard Zuley, | 36:54 | |
and General Jay Hood. | 36:55 | |
Interviewer | Why do you think | 36:57 |
if you said that most of the people | 36:58 | |
in Guantanamo are innocent, | 37:01 | |
why do you think that you got special treatment, | 37:02 | |
and the general and the interrogators | 37:05 | |
all wrote letters for you? | 37:08 | |
'Cause they didn't write it for everyone. | 37:09 | |
Why did you get to be in the Echo Camp | 37:10 | |
and have more freedom than the other people? | 37:17 | |
Why do you think that? | 37:19 | |
- | I don't think so. | 37:24 |
Interviewer | You don't know? | 37:24 |
- | I think we should erase it. | 37:25 |
Interviewer | You think what? | 37:28 |
- | She knows. | 37:29 |
Interviewer | She knows? | 37:30 |
Well, but she's not in camera. | 37:31 | |
If you don't want to tell us that, fine, | 37:33 | |
or if you have some ideas, but I think- | 37:35 | |
- | I think I told you. | 37:37 |
You're still rolling, right? | 37:39 | |
All right. | 37:40 | |
Interviewer | We can turn it off if you want. | 37:41 |
- | Yeah, turn it off. | 37:42 |
Interviewer | Okay. | 37:44 |
Cameraman | Rolling. | 37:45 |
Interviewer | Okay, do you ever | 37:46 |
have to meet with women guards? | 37:48 | |
Did women ever come to while | 37:51 | |
you were in Guantanamo? | 37:54 | |
And did women treat you | 37:55 | |
any differently than men did? | 37:56 | |
- | Guards, you mean? | 37:58 |
Interviewer | Guards, women guards, yeah. | 37:59 |
- | First, I hope there are women | 38:05 |
who are working in guards in Guantanamo. | 38:07 | |
It is a big tough, harsh, a place. | 38:13 | |
But I saw many women working as guards, | 38:16 | |
and I spoke to them, | 38:19 | |
and that is from Navy. | 38:22 | |
We were good. | 38:24 | |
Interviewer | What about interrogators? | 38:25 |
Were any women interrogators? | 38:26 | |
- | With me, no. | 38:29 |
Interviewer | No, and if someone had asked you | 38:30 |
the worst thing of being in Guantanamo, | 38:34 | |
what would you say that would be? | 38:37 | |
- | The worst thing in Guantanamo for me? | 38:40 |
Interviewer | Yeah. | 38:41 |
- | First, I think... | 38:43 |
There is too many things. | 38:46 | |
Depression, frustration, segregation, | 38:48 | |
and tough, and rough treatment from people, guards. | 38:52 | |
I saw and I heard about many torturing, | 39:01 | |
and humiliation, and insult | 39:06 | |
for some people, from detainees. | 39:10 | |
And I know many stories. | 39:13 | |
I saw the people who were... | 39:15 | |
Some people committed suicide, | 39:18 | |
they cannot bear it, | 39:20 | |
to live their life there. | 39:21 | |
And they were in bad situation too | 39:24 | |
because they refused to talk | 39:27 | |
to the guard, interrogations, and interrogators. | 39:32 | |
Because they believe that you should | 39:37 | |
not talk at all about anything. | 39:40 | |
This is what they believe. | 39:43 | |
But me, I could speak, | 39:46 | |
because as I told you before, | 39:50 | |
I am innocent person. | 39:52 | |
I didn't do anything. | 39:54 | |
I went to Afghanistan to have a life with my family, | 39:55 | |
but it was bad time, and bad place, | 39:59 | |
bad time, and bad choice for me. | 40:02 | |
Interviewer | Did you know anybody | 40:08 |
who committed suicide? | 40:09 | |
- | Yeah, there was about four committed suicide. | 40:12 |
Interviewer | Did you know them? | 40:18 |
- | Personally, no, but I heard their stories | 40:20 |
from other people who were living with them. | 40:22 | |
Because as I told you before, | 40:24 | |
I was completely isolated from other people. | 40:26 | |
I didn't like, I was very old | 40:29 | |
for conveying to them. | 40:31 | |
And I was very sick, | 40:33 | |
I have medical issues. | 40:36 | |
These are my medical reports. | 40:41 | |
I have too much diseases. | 40:44 | |
I have high blood pressure. | 40:46 | |
I have high cholesterol. | 40:48 | |
I actually got, I have too many things. | 40:49 | |
I think my Doctor Sandra | 40:53 | |
know everything about me. | 40:55 | |
She spoke about me in the medical conference, | 40:57 | |
and she told everything about my situation. | 41:00 | |
Interviewer | Would you say there's any, | 41:04 |
we always ask people if there was anything | 41:06 | |
positive about being in Guantanamo, | 41:09 | |
would you say there's anything positive | 41:12 | |
for you about being in Guantanamo? | 41:14 | |
- | From me, or from America, or from what? | 41:16 |
Interviewer | For you. | 41:18 |
Was there anything positive | 41:19 | |
for being in Guantanamo for you? | 41:20 | |
- | Positive, there's nothing positive. | 41:22 |
None, I lost my family. | 41:23 | |
I lost my daughter. | 41:24 | |
I lost my job. | 41:25 | |
I didn't have a home. | 41:27 | |
15 years or 14 years, I living alone. | 41:29 | |
There is no benefit for real at all, nothing. | 41:36 | |
Interviewer | How did you cope? | 41:40 |
How did you manage to live there | 41:41 | |
through all those years? | 41:43 | |
- | I love to be segregated alone. | 41:46 |
I love to be alone, | 41:49 | |
and I love to be with myself and God, | 41:56 | |
like some Muslims like to be isolated | 42:03 | |
and live alone. | 42:05 | |
Interviewer | Could you read books, | 42:07 |
or what did you do every day? | 42:08 | |
- | Yeah, yeah, I could do everything, and we have... | 42:13 |
First day, it was very hard and very harsh. | 42:18 | |
There was nothing. | 42:20 | |
There was interrogations, | 42:21 | |
and torturing, and this thing. | 42:22 | |
But after that, when everything was settled, | 42:26 | |
and I think there was in... | 42:28 | |
Detainees says is they put | 42:35 | |
in big blessed, they put TVs, | 42:38 | |
and some detainees have libraries, books, music. | 42:43 | |
Interviewer | Did you? | 42:51 |
Turn it off? | 42:59 | |
Cameraman | Okay, rolling. | 43:01 |
- | But make sure that this cannot come out. | 43:02 |
Interviewer | Right, no. | 43:04 |
We'll put that at no, okay. | 43:05 | |
You wanna show us another document? | 43:12 | |
- | Yeah, after that. | 43:14 |
Interviewer | Okay, did you ever- | 43:15 |
- | Oh, my God. | 43:22 |
Interviewer | Write letters to your family | 43:23 |
while you were there? | 43:25 | |
- | Actually, I didn't like to write it. | 43:28 |
I prefer to, you're still rolling? | 43:31 | |
Cameraman | Yeah, take, go ahead, clean that up, | 43:36 |
and then, you can keep going. | 43:38 | |
Interviewer | So okay, so writing letters. | 43:54 |
You don't like to write. | 43:56 | |
- | I wrote some letters with the Red Cross | 43:57 |
but I preferred it then to talk to my family on Skype. | 43:59 | |
Yeah, I had the one, I think, | 44:04 | |
two times on the month | 44:06 | |
to talk to my family on Skype. | 44:09 | |
Interviewer | And could you get letters | 44:11 |
from your family too? | 44:13 | |
Or you just spoke to them on Skype? | 44:14 | |
- | They didn't like to write, | 44:16 |
and I didn't like to write. | 44:18 | |
I'm not a writer. | 44:20 | |
Interviewer | So did you expect to leave Guantanamo soon | 44:24 |
or were you surprised that you were there, | 44:29 | |
and until you were released? | 44:31 | |
And how did it happen that you were released? | 44:35 | |
- | I expected to go out from Guantanamo at 2012 | 44:38 |
where I had a letter from my lawyer. | 44:48 | |
He said that I should be... | 44:49 | |
My charges are expunged without | 44:55 | |
what is this word, prejudice? | 45:01 | |
Interviewer | Without prejudice. | 45:04 |
- | Yeah, without prejudice. | 45:05 |
And 2012, and I was out 2016. | 45:07 | |
Interviewer | Why do you think | 45:13 |
you were there four more years | 45:14 | |
after you should have been released? | 45:16 | |
- | I don't know, I don't know. | 45:19 |
I should be released at 2008 too. | 45:22 | |
I had a letter, I had this paper | 45:26 | |
from Colonel Martin, General Martin, sorry. | 45:32 | |
This recommend to release | 45:38 | |
and to dismiss my charges, | 45:42 | |
and all charges were dismissed, you see? | 45:45 | |
All the charges are dismissed. | 45:49 | |
Yeah, you see, no charges. | 45:59 | |
And I had the decision from where | 46:04 | |
that all charges are dismissed in 2008, | 46:08 | |
and I should go out from Guantanamo | 46:13 | |
2008, 2009 maximum. | 46:17 | |
Suddenly, something happened. | 46:21 | |
Me and my neighbor, Sala, should go out. | 46:23 | |
When and how? | 46:28 | |
Why we don't go out? | 46:30 | |
One day came to me, my lawyer, | 46:34 | |
at this time, he was Major Wilcox, | 46:37 | |
Scott Wilcox, and Scott Madelyn. | 46:41 | |
And some other people, | 46:45 | |
they came from the Justice Department | 46:46 | |
and other reasonable, responsible people, | 46:49 | |
and I don't know their identity, | 46:53 | |
but they came, they said, | 46:59 | |
"Okay, Tariq, you are here in Guantanamo. | 47:01 | |
"You're here in Guantanamo | 47:05 | |
"and we need you to confess anything, | 47:07 | |
"confess anything, and we'll give you | 47:11 | |
"three years in prison, | 47:16 | |
"and we can release you out after this. | 47:18 | |
And myself, I, because what I have seen, | 47:22 | |
and what I have heard from other people, | 47:25 | |
there is no going out. | 47:29 | |
So they wanted me to confess I did something, | 47:33 | |
and they'll put it in my papers, | 47:36 | |
and I'll become stained by these charges all my life. | 47:38 | |
People will consider me terrorist everywhere. | 47:43 | |
And I said, no, I refused. | 47:46 | |
I did not confess something I didn't do. | 47:50 | |
And if you wanted me confess | 47:52 | |
that I did something, what I'll confess. | 47:54 | |
I killed 100 American? | 47:56 | |
Who are these people I killed? | 47:58 | |
Did I stole money from you? | 48:01 | |
Did I kidnap or rape somebody in America, what? | 48:03 | |
I'm here imprisoned eight years | 48:11 | |
or more from 2002 and one year | 48:14 | |
in Afghanistan prison; | 48:18 | |
Kandahar, Kabul, Bagram. | 48:21 | |
So I said no. | 48:24 | |
And after that, I stayed in Guantanamo 'til 2016. | 48:26 | |
Interviewer | And how did you know | 48:29 |
you were going out in 2016? | 48:30 | |
How did that happen? | 48:32 | |
- | I met, of course, | 48:36 |
and I appreciate the efforts | 48:38 | |
of my lawyers, Colonel Sean Gleason, | 48:40 | |
and my lawyer, Mary Manning Petras, | 48:43 | |
and other people I met. | 48:46 | |
I don't recall them right now, | 48:49 | |
Sandra, of course, who are with me | 48:51 | |
later in my medical, | 48:53 | |
and I appreciate it. | 48:57 | |
But I knew I had the connection. | 48:58 | |
I always send letters to my lawyers, | 49:02 | |
with Mary and Sean Gleason, Colonel Sean Gleason, | 49:04 | |
and asked them about my situation, | 49:07 | |
and they were answering me, | 49:10 | |
and I appreciate this too. | 49:11 | |
And they were following my case, | 49:13 | |
they were interested in my case. | 49:15 | |
And they sent me letters that there is PRB | 49:17 | |
made by President Obama suggestion, | 49:23 | |
and I'll have meeting with some authorities | 49:29 | |
from the United States on screen, on Skype, | 49:32 | |
and I should explain my situation. | 49:36 | |
And that PRB for prison or something. | 49:42 | |
And also, I have military representative, | 49:46 | |
two of them. | 49:51 | |
I met them too, | 49:56 | |
and I explained my situation. | 49:57 | |
And I had this meeting with the PRB people | 49:59 | |
in Washington or in America, | 50:02 | |
I don't know where they were. | 50:04 | |
And they made a decision. | 50:06 | |
Here is their decision | 50:09 | |
to be cleared from Guantanamo | 50:12 | |
and to move to secure and place, | 50:16 | |
secure country where I can have a life. | 50:21 | |
And I have compensation, | 50:25 | |
and we have freedom, good freedom, good life. | 50:28 | |
Interviewer | I'll talk about that in just a moment. | 50:34 |
I just want to ask you did the Bosnian country | 50:35 | |
send any representatives to meet with you | 50:39 | |
before you were released to Bosnia? | 50:41 | |
- | No, no, and I'm very sad because of this. | 50:44 |
They should come and meet me | 50:50 | |
but I spoke to my lawyer, Mary Petras, | 50:51 | |
before I came here. | 50:57 | |
And I asked her here on telephone, | 50:58 | |
one day before I moved to here. | 51:02 | |
I told her, "So Mary, I didn't meet | 51:05 | |
"any delegation from Bosnia, like other people. | 51:07 | |
"Nobody spoke to me from Bosnia. | 51:11 | |
"Where I go, what I do?" | 51:13 | |
She said to me, "It is okay, Tariq. | 51:16 | |
"You just have to when you go out from Guantanamo." | 51:19 | |
I believe she does this, | 51:23 | |
and also, I have letters here | 51:25 | |
from Sean Gleason, Colonel Sean Gleason, | 51:28 | |
and he says everything is already | 51:32 | |
in Department of the State, | 51:34 | |
prepared, agreed to my transfer. | 51:38 | |
And the major also told to me | 51:46 | |
somehow in a letter that everything is ready | 51:49 | |
and everything is going forward. | 51:52 | |
I'll show you these letters after that. | 51:55 | |
Interviewer | And when you arrived | 51:57 |
in Bosnia, what happened? | 51:59 | |
- | First, let us talk about moving from Guantanamo. | 52:03 |
Interviewer | Okay, good. | 52:06 |
- | I met Colonel Hays, | 52:08 |
and he in a private meeting, | 52:13 | |
he said, "Tariq, you are going | 52:15 | |
"to be released to Bosnia, | 52:17 | |
"and we'll shake the hand, thank you." | 52:20 | |
And he went. | 52:23 | |
And at this time, | 52:26 | |
I was in a good place like Echo, | 52:28 | |
because before that they put me | 52:34 | |
in isolation, segregation, | 52:38 | |
in BCU unit like I'm crazy, | 52:39 | |
said that I was going to commit suicide | 52:41 | |
and to kill myself. | 52:43 | |
And I don't know why. | 52:44 | |
I have been in Guantanamo 14 years. | 52:46 | |
I kill myself now before I go out? | 52:47 | |
Ridiculous, you know. | 52:51 | |
But they gave me clothes from Guantanamo, | 52:52 | |
T-shirt and pants, and said, | 53:00 | |
"Don't take anything with you. | 53:01 | |
"Any belongings from there." | 53:03 | |
Okay, I was this time | 53:06 | |
was transferred to Montenegro, I think. | 53:10 | |
They took me in the restraints outside | 53:19 | |
and searched me, and we take this ship cross, | 53:22 | |
without cross or what are on. | 53:29 | |
I saw Mary over there, | 53:33 | |
she was there to have goodbye, | 53:34 | |
and she was waiting for me there. | 53:37 | |
But when I went to the ship, | 53:39 | |
they searched me very badly. | 53:46 | |
And also now, in front of the military airplane, | 53:48 | |
I was wearing my T-shirt, and with pants, | 53:53 | |
and I had the flip-flop in my legs. | 53:55 | |
Interviewer | Shackled? | 54:01 |
- | Yeah, shackled, and earmuffs, and blindfolded, | 54:02 |
like I'm mafia, or drug dealer, or something. | 54:08 | |
I said, "You are going to release me, | 54:12 | |
"I'm free person, no? | 54:14 | |
"Why you are doing this?" | 54:15 | |
I was in that building with about | 54:17 | |
50 army soldier around me, what I do? | 54:19 | |
They shackled my hand, my legs, earmuffs, | 54:24 | |
like I'm going to fly or something, really. | 54:27 | |
This army by searching my private parts. | 54:33 | |
I was very angry about that. | 54:39 | |
I was shackled, I cannot. | 54:41 | |
As I said, "I wanted to go. | 54:45 | |
"I just wanted to go, | 54:47 | |
"let me go, daughter home." | 54:48 | |
I went to the airplane, | 54:52 | |
and they were flying, flying, | 54:54 | |
and they dropped me in Sarajevo Airport. | 54:58 | |
Sarajevo Airport, it was winter, | 55:02 | |
20 January, and very cold. | 55:06 | |
I came out in T-shirt and pants. | 55:13 | |
I told them, "Give me something. | 55:14 | |
"This is it, where is my belongings, everything?" | 55:18 | |
I requested it, nothing. | 55:21 | |
People from Bosnia, from the government, | 55:25 | |
they took me like some sort | 55:27 | |
of another interrogation, okay. | 55:31 | |
"Do you have any papers? | 55:37 | |
"Do you have any documents?" | 55:38 | |
I said, "Ask the people who from airport, | 55:39 | |
"the soldiers, the colonel, | 55:43 | |
"who's in the airport or somebody? | 55:45 | |
"Nothing, nothing, I don't have papers, | 55:48 | |
"I don't have documents. | 55:52 | |
"Where is these papers? | 55:53 | |
"Where is my statement of transfer | 55:54 | |
"from Guantanamo to Bosnia? | 55:57 | |
"Where is the delegations | 55:58 | |
"that I should meet in Guantanamo | 55:59 | |
"that tell me what I'll have in Bosnia?" | 56:02 | |
Maybe I don't want to go to Bosnia, nothing, right? | 56:06 | |
They took me to immigration center. | 56:11 | |
They said, "Tariq will stay here six months, | 56:13 | |
"and then transfer you to another country. | 56:18 | |
"Maybe you'll go back to Egypt." | 56:20 | |
My daughter knew that I am in the center, | 56:28 | |
and I'm grateful for her. | 56:33 | |
She worked very hard, | 56:34 | |
and she called a lawyer. | 56:37 | |
His name, Dosanjh Tomich. | 56:38 | |
And he worked at to release me | 56:40 | |
from the immigration center, | 56:42 | |
and I went out. | 56:44 | |
Interviewer | How long? | 56:48 |
- | Approximately three, four months in immigration center. | 56:52 |
It was another prison, | 56:56 | |
but not like Guantanamo, of course. | 56:58 | |
Interviewer | What was your status in Bosnia | 57:03 |
before you went to Afghanistan? | 57:04 | |
- | First of all, I was living in Bocheyna, | 57:09 |
in Magrai, with other people, some Arabs, | 57:13 | |
they like to live in this place. | 57:17 | |
Some sort of isolated community or society. | 57:21 | |
Interviewer | In what country was that? | 57:26 |
- | In Magrai, in Bosnia. | 57:28 |
Interviewer | Oh, in Bosnia, okay. | 57:29 |
- | And people from, leaders from the 5th Army, | 57:30 |
and some people from after the federation, | 57:34 | |
that an accord was established, | 57:37 | |
that an accord first. | 57:40 | |
They came, and especially people from the 5th Army, | 57:42 | |
they said we should leave Bocheyna, | 57:46 | |
and go out someplace else | 57:49 | |
because they want to take Bocheyna back, | 57:50 | |
Magrai to the Serbians. | 57:53 | |
Where to go, what we do? | 58:00 | |
I went first to the Zenica, | 58:02 | |
I lived with my daughter. | 58:04 | |
But they do not call, | 58:09 | |
and people should go out, no strangers. | 58:11 | |
We are strangers, we are... | 58:14 | |
Will make us like bad people. | 58:19 | |
I don't know, I came here to help donations, | 58:21 | |
and I was working with organizations | 58:24 | |
to helping the Bosnian people. | 58:29 | |
And after that, I joined the 3rd Army. | 58:32 | |
But it was all regular. | 58:40 | |
In 1995, I have my citizenship. | 58:44 | |
I was married. | 58:46 | |
I had citizenship, I have documents, I have- | 58:49 | |
Interviewer | You mean Bosnian citizenship? | 58:52 |
- | Yeah, and I helped Bosnia, | 58:54 |
and but you know? | 58:58 | |
Media and people, excuse me, | 59:00 | |
American media make us like | 59:04 | |
we are going to eat the people. | 59:10 | |
Well, I don't know what to say. | 59:14 | |
What to say, I don't know. | 59:16 | |
Even some Bosnian people who were afraid, | 59:19 | |
I give him my hand, | 59:24 | |
we gave them medicine, we gave them food, | 59:26 | |
and they are scared of us | 59:29 | |
because of the new media, | 59:31 | |
American media, and other media | 59:33 | |
trying to make bad reputation about us. | 59:37 | |
So well, they said go out, I was released. | 59:44 | |
I didn't like to, | 59:48 | |
somebody force me to go any place. | 59:50 | |
So I thought, where we go, | 59:53 | |
what is the security? | 59:55 | |
What is the Islamic country, | 59:56 | |
Sharia, Taliban, and Afghanistan? | 59:58 | |
So I told my wife, and my daughter, | 1:00:02 | |
and my mother-in-law, | 1:00:04 | |
I'm going to Afghanistan. | 1:00:06 | |
I tried to, she said, my mother-in-law, | 1:00:09 | |
she said, "Okay, go find out | 1:00:11 | |
"if it is a good life, | 1:00:13 | |
"and you can take your daughter, | 1:00:15 | |
"and my daughter with me." | 1:00:18 | |
After that, it's okay. | 1:00:20 | |
I left there, and I went to Afghanistan. | 1:00:24 | |
I was very heavy. | 1:00:28 | |
Sandra saw me in my first days. | 1:00:32 | |
I was about, in Bosnia, I was 500 pounds, maybe. | 1:00:35 | |
I couldn't move, I could not walk, | 1:00:39 | |
I could not, I was very fat. | 1:00:40 | |
And you see, I came out from Guantanamo | 1:00:41 | |
for 14 years, look at me, still fat. | 1:00:44 | |
I was more fat than this one. | 1:00:48 | |
I went to 20 January. | 1:00:50 | |
I just want to live. | 1:00:55 | |
I don't really know where to go. | 1:00:59 | |
Bosnia was cheap country, | 1:01:02 | |
and money is nothing there. | 1:01:06 | |
You can live in anything. | 1:01:08 | |
You can afford the life for your family. | 1:01:10 | |
And also that is Islam. | 1:01:15 | |
Women wear niqab and hijab. | 1:01:18 | |
Men have beard, and they pray, | 1:01:21 | |
and it was quite a life. | 1:01:25 | |
But we didn't know that | 1:01:29 | |
there is what is hidden about it. | 1:01:34 | |
Wrong time, wrong place, everything. | 1:01:38 | |
Interviewer | When you were released | 1:01:42 |
from prison in Bosnia, | 1:01:44 | |
weren't you still a citizen? | 1:01:46 | |
- | I was not in prison in Bosnia. | 1:01:48 |
Interviewer | Oh, just the immigration, | 1:01:50 |
that wasn't a prison or is when you said- | 1:01:52 | |
- | Yeah, you mean when after I came out? | 1:01:55 |
Interviewer | Yeah. | 1:01:56 |
- | It was like a prison, immigration center. | 1:01:57 |
They imprison people | 1:01:59 | |
who are illegally came to Bosnia, | 1:02:00 | |
and they immigrate them to another country, | 1:02:03 | |
or they take them back to their countries. | 1:02:06 | |
Interviewer | But then they released you | 1:02:12 |
into Bosnia after three or four months, | 1:02:13 | |
you said, right? | 1:02:16 | |
- | Yeah. | 1:02:17 |
Interviewer | And were you considered | 1:02:18 |
still a citizen at that time? | 1:02:19 | |
'Cause if you had a citizenship, | 1:02:21 | |
you could go out. | 1:02:22 | |
- | They gave me some (speaks in foreign language), | 1:02:23 |
or approval, or something like that. | 1:02:26 | |
That I was released from the immigration center, | 1:02:29 | |
and I lived with my daughter | 1:02:31 | |
under her responsibility. | 1:02:33 | |
She agreed that to take care of me. | 1:02:35 | |
So and I'm still living. | 1:02:37 | |
My lawyer tried to return back my citizenship | 1:02:44 | |
because I had a Bosnian citizenship. | 1:02:48 | |
I think I don't know exactly | 1:02:51 | |
when they canceled it, 2006, 2005. | 1:02:53 | |
I don't remember. | 1:02:57 | |
I was not in Bosnia, | 1:02:59 | |
and they should tell me legally, | 1:03:00 | |
I should know that, but they didn't. | 1:03:03 | |
I came here, my wife married another man. | 1:03:08 | |
My daughter was living alone, | 1:03:13 | |
and I am still living alone really | 1:03:15 | |
because I don't have real support. | 1:03:18 | |
I don't have job, | 1:03:20 | |
I don't have compensation from the United States, | 1:03:21 | |
I don't have medical care, | 1:03:25 | |
I need to pay too much money here, medicals. | 1:03:26 | |
Medical treatment and doctors | 1:03:30 | |
here are very expensive. | 1:03:32 | |
For me, I don't know about Bosnian people, | 1:03:33 | |
but for me, it is very expensive. | 1:03:36 | |
I don't have anything. | 1:03:38 | |
Interviewer | Well, why don't | 1:03:39 |
you tell us a little bit about your status | 1:03:39 | |
and about your life today in Bosnia? | 1:03:41 | |
Why don't you tell us what you want | 1:03:44 | |
from the US Government and also, | 1:03:46 | |
what you feel your life is like here? | 1:03:48 | |
- | I prefer, as I hear that | 1:03:55 |
I can go to Qatar or Oman, Turkey. | 1:03:58 | |
If I don't have my life here, | 1:04:06 | |
I need to return my citizenship. | 1:04:09 | |
At least, I can work to find (indistinct). | 1:04:12 | |
I am 59, I should be on pension. | 1:04:14 | |
But I tried to find job. | 1:04:17 | |
But also, I'm telling you, since America, | 1:04:19 | |
I have been in your prison 14 years, for nothing, | 1:04:22 | |
I need something, | 1:04:28 | |
I need compensation, I need help. | 1:04:29 | |
I was good with you, be good with me, right? | 1:04:33 | |
Interviewer | Well, I think a lot | 1:04:37 |
of people care about that. | 1:04:38 | |
I think a lot of people- | 1:04:40 | |
- | I hope so, I hope so. | 1:04:41 |
Interviewer | And if you had your wishes, | 1:04:42 |
what would you like besides compensation | 1:04:45 | |
for your life? | 1:04:48 | |
- | I need compensation. | 1:04:51 |
I need to return my citizenship for Bosnia. | 1:04:51 | |
At least, I can move. | 1:04:56 | |
I am confined here in Sarajevo. | 1:04:58 | |
I cannot go any one meter outside Sarajevo. | 1:05:00 | |
Like I'm living in Guantanamo again. | 1:05:06 | |
It is not freedom, it is not life. | 1:05:09 | |
Interviewer | Do you have refugee status | 1:05:15 |
or what is your status exactly? | 1:05:17 | |
- | I applied for political asylum, and I am waiting, | 1:05:19 |
but what I'll do with political asylum, | 1:05:25 | |
I need job, I need compensation, | 1:05:28 | |
I need something to live with it, right? | 1:05:30 | |
Interviewer | And then who's helping | 1:05:32 |
you get political asylum? | 1:05:33 | |
Do you have a lawyer to help you? | 1:05:35 | |
- | Yes, I have some lawyers | 1:05:37 |
or organization called the Vasa Prava, | 1:05:39 | |
Your Rights in English, | 1:05:43 | |
and they have a group of lawyers | 1:05:45 | |
that are helping me to get | 1:05:48 | |
the political asylum or social asylum. | 1:05:49 | |
I don't care, but I need something. | 1:05:51 | |
But again, it will not help. | 1:05:53 | |
I need the true statement, | 1:05:55 | |
the true condition of my transfer | 1:05:58 | |
from Guantanamo to Bosnia. | 1:06:00 | |
What are these conditions, | 1:06:03 | |
and what I should have? | 1:06:05 | |
I don't know 'til now. | 1:06:06 | |
'Til this moment, I don't know, | 1:06:08 | |
really, no lie. | 1:06:09 | |
Interviewer | Could you tell us again, | 1:06:20 |
just because I think it's important | 1:06:21 | |
for Americans to see this and for the world, | 1:06:23 | |
exactly what you would like? | 1:06:26 | |
What do you think America should do, | 1:06:29 | |
and what you would like for yourself going forward? | 1:06:32 | |
Just what's important to you now? | 1:06:36 | |
- | The important thing to me now is to clear | 1:06:41 |
my image in front of the people, | 1:06:43 | |
on the areas. | 1:06:49 | |
They made me look like a monster or something. | 1:06:52 | |
Internet, newspapers, and they keep talking, talking, | 1:06:59 | |
and they don't have any evidence. | 1:07:05 | |
I have proofs that I'm innocent person. | 1:07:07 | |
Why do they keep tackling about me | 1:07:12 | |
like a bad person? | 1:07:15 | |
If you gave me this, and you said again, | 1:07:17 | |
you denied what you said? | 1:07:21 | |
This right this second, | 1:07:24 | |
I need compensation, I need life. | 1:07:26 | |
I need my Bosnian citizenship back. | 1:07:28 | |
I need to have home, | 1:07:33 | |
to have a job, to have an ID. | 1:07:35 | |
This is what I need. | 1:07:42 | |
Interviewer | Are you allowed to work in Bosnia? | 1:07:43 |
If someone gave you a job, | 1:07:45 | |
would you be able to take it? | 1:07:47 | |
- | Yeah, but I don't have papers. | 1:07:49 |
How can I? | 1:07:51 | |
They don't, I don't. | 1:07:51 | |
I'm not legal to live here. | 1:07:53 | |
The people are afraid because of me in media, | 1:07:54 | |
and I'm big, something big. | 1:07:59 | |
I know that I'm fat but not that big. | 1:08:02 | |
Interviewer | Anybody who, let's say | 1:08:07 |
some employer wanted to hire you, | 1:08:09 | |
would they know you were in Guantanamo? | 1:08:12 | |
How would they know that? | 1:08:14 | |
- | From the newspapers, | 1:08:16 |
or from the media, from everywhere. | 1:08:17 | |
Before I come here, media people | 1:08:21 | |
were talking on me on TVs, | 1:08:25 | |
and they made too much thing, | 1:08:27 | |
they talked too much about me. | 1:08:28 | |
Interviewer | Do people ever stop you on the street | 1:08:31 |
and say to you, they recognize you? | 1:08:32 | |
- | No, no, no, no. | 1:08:34 |
Interviewer | And who pays your rent | 1:08:38 |
where you live? | 1:08:40 | |
- | I ask people. | 1:08:43 |
Interviewer | Does Bosnia give | 1:08:48 |
you money for food and rent? | 1:08:49 | |
- | No, I don't get anything | 1:08:51 |
from Bosnian Government, nothing. | 1:08:53 | |
Interviewer | Do you know if the US gave | 1:08:58 |
the Bosnian Government any money to take you? | 1:08:59 | |
- | I don't have any idea about this, | 1:09:02 |
and I need to find out. | 1:09:04 | |
Interviewer | And do you have any | 1:09:06 |
counseling services available to you or social services? | 1:09:08 | |
Do you meet with a counselor, | 1:09:12 | |
or with a psychologist, | 1:09:14 | |
or with someone to just discuss your situation? | 1:09:16 | |
- | Psychologist psychologically? | 1:09:18 |
Nobody, I cannot go to anyone or to anybody, | 1:09:21 | |
I don't have money to go to anyone. | 1:09:22 | |
Doctors and medicine, everything needs money. | 1:09:24 | |
Please give me some money to go to buy medicine. | 1:09:28 | |
Please give me some money | 1:09:31 | |
to do this and do this. | 1:09:32 | |
Interviewer | Bosnia doesn't provide you anything | 1:09:35 |
because you have no status here, | 1:09:37 | |
that's what you told us. | 1:09:39 | |
- | Yeah, yeah. | 1:09:40 |
Interviewer | And since you've mentioned | 1:09:43 |
Sandra many times in the interview, | 1:09:46 | |
and people might wonder who she is, | 1:09:48 | |
can you tell us who she is? | 1:09:49 | |
- | Well, she's a doctor, | 1:09:52 |
and she's a nice woman, | 1:09:53 | |
and she came to me in Guantanamo many times. | 1:09:55 | |
We spoke together about | 1:10:00 | |
mostly medical situation, right? | 1:10:03 | |
And she helping me in the medical conference, | 1:10:05 | |
and she spoke about me. | 1:10:08 | |
I showed this on the internet. | 1:10:09 | |
Interviewer | And how has she been helpful to you? | 1:10:14 |
In what ways do you find it very helpful? | 1:10:16 | |
- | Not what she said in the conference. | 1:10:21 |
And she came here today, | 1:10:25 | |
and before, the day before. | 1:10:26 | |
Interviewer | Is there something | 1:10:30 |
that I didn't ask you, Tariq, | 1:10:30 | |
that is important for you to tell the world | 1:10:32 | |
that we would like to include | 1:10:36 | |
before we end this interview? | 1:10:38 | |
- | It's better to settle down. | 1:10:45 |
Interviewer | Better to shut it down? | 1:10:46 |
- | Yeah, it's better to settle down, everything. | 1:10:47 |
Interviewer | Shut down Guantanamo, you mean? | 1:10:52 |
- | No, settle down like let us | 1:10:55 |
look for peace, for a peaceful life. | 1:10:57 | |
Let us look for improving life. | 1:11:01 | |
Like God said in Quran. | 1:11:09 | |
(speaks in foreign language) | 1:11:13 | |
Let us share life, okay. | 1:11:26 | |
Interviewer | Can you translate that or that's... | 1:11:30 |
- | My English is weak but God says, | 1:11:34 |
"All people who, you have been | 1:11:38 | |
"created from male and female, | 1:11:40 | |
"and we need you, population | 1:11:43 | |
"and tribes to recognize each other | 1:11:46 | |
"and to make connections with each other." | 1:11:50 | |
That's it. | 1:11:53 | |
Interviewer | Well, it's a good way to end this | 1:11:55 |
if that's ready to end it. | 1:11:57 | |
You ready to end the interview? | 1:11:59 | |
Are you ready to end the interview? | 1:12:03 | |
Do you think you've said all you wanted to say? | 1:12:04 | |
- | Yeah, as I said, God help me, yeah. | 1:12:08 |
- | 'Cause we need 20 seconds of the room tone | 1:12:12 |
where Johnny, where we just are quiet, | 1:12:16 | |
and Johnny just keeps recording for 20 seconds, | 1:12:18 | |
and then we can end the interview. | 1:12:21 | |
- | Okay. | 1:12:23 |
Interviewer | Okay. | 1:12:24 |
Tariq | Thank you very much. | 1:12:25 |
Interviewer | Thank you. | 1:12:26 |
Johnny | Okay, begin room tone. | 1:12:27 |
Tariq | Hmm? | 1:12:29 |
Johnny | So we just sit quietly. | 1:12:29 |
Interviewer | And then we'll photograph | 1:12:31 |
the documents after. | 1:12:32 | |
Tariq | Can I sit there? | 1:12:34 |
Interviewer | No, for 20 seconds, | 1:12:36 |
you should sit here, | 1:12:37 | |
and then we'll turn it off, | 1:12:38 | |
and we'll photograph it, okay? | 1:12:40 | |
Johnny | Okay. | 1:12:42 |
I'm ready. | 1:12:58 | |
- | Okay, now, I am again Tariq Mahmoud al-Sawah, | 1:12:58 |
and I was detained in Guantanamo | 1:13:02 | |
for 14 years approximately, | 1:13:07 | |
and I have here some documents | 1:13:09 | |
that approved that I should be released many times | 1:13:14 | |
but I was held in Guantanamo 'til January, 2016. | 1:13:18 | |
And 'til this moment I'm talking to you, | 1:13:25 | |
I don't know why. | 1:13:27 | |
I have this paper, this letter, a legal mail, | 1:13:30 | |
letter from my lawyer, Colonel Sean Gleason. | 1:13:35 | |
It was written in 21 December, 2015. | 1:13:39 | |
21 December, 2015, he says there | 1:13:46 | |
my charges are ultimately dismissed, | 1:13:51 | |
and specification without, what is the word? | 1:13:55 | |
Interviewer | Prejudice. | 1:14:00 |
- | And on 1 March 2012. | 1:14:01 |
1 March 2012. | 1:14:05 | |
All right. | 1:14:15 | |
Johnny | Okay, just- | 1:14:16 |
Interviewer | One second. | 1:14:17 |
Johnny | Okay. | 1:14:40 |
Interviewer | Okay. | 1:14:42 |
- | I was held in Guantanamo. | 1:14:43 |
I was held in Guantanamo 'til 2008, | 1:14:48 | |
and there was interrogations, | 1:14:55 | |
there was meetings every day. | 1:14:58 | |
Approximately, like I was interrogated | 1:15:02 | |
every day 'til 2008, and here, | 1:15:06 | |
these papers is legal papers, | 1:15:12 | |
they are approved from Guantanamo. | 1:15:16 | |
They're approved from Guantanamo in 2012 here. | 1:15:20 | |
Brigadier General US Army Chief Prosecutor, | 1:15:33 | |
Mark S. Martins, Mark S. Martins. | 1:15:40 | |
These papers request the dismiss of my charges | 1:15:47 | |
in 2008 by General Martins, the prosecutor, | 1:15:51 | |
the chief prosecutor, all right. | 1:15:56 | |
The charges were dismissed. | 1:16:00 | |
As you see, and the old papers | 1:16:05 | |
are approved by and stamped from Guantanamo. | 1:16:07 | |
Lady | Thank you. | 1:16:51 |
- | Here, this is the final decision | 1:17:04 |
by Michael Chapman, Legal Adviser | 1:17:11 | |
to Convening Authority for Military Commissions. | 1:17:15 | |
He approved the dismiss of my charges. | 1:17:20 | |
I think it's better to focus on this. | 1:17:25 | |
And- | 1:17:34 | |
Interviewer | Why don't you let Johnny | 1:17:35 |
just take photograph of that? | 1:17:36 | |
Johnny | We'll get a photograph of that. | 1:17:39 |
Interviewer | Okay. | 1:17:41 |
Johnny | Hold it up one more time. | 1:17:43 |
Okay. | 1:17:50 | |
- | These recommendations from | 1:18:04 |
the commanders of Guantanamo. | 1:18:06 | |
First of them, the interrogator, Richard Zuley. | 1:18:09 | |
This is his recommendation for me to be released. | 1:18:15 | |
It should be for the PRB. | 1:18:20 | |
And this from Rear Admiral David Thomas, | 1:18:29 | |
Rear Admiral David Thomas, | 1:18:34 | |
and I'm grateful for him too. | 1:18:36 | |
This is from Vice Admiral Thomas Copeman, | 1:18:50 | |
Vice Admiral Thomas Copeman. | 1:18:56 | |
This from a friend. | 1:19:05 | |
He was a lawyer in Guantanamo, | 1:19:12 | |
and Captain Martin. | 1:19:17 | |
I think he's bigger than captain now. | 1:19:20 | |
And this is from a big friend, General Jay Hood. | 1:19:28 | |
Recommendation for the PRB. | 1:19:38 | |
Now, these papers for my medical status. | 1:19:55 | |
I'm afraid it is in Bosnian. | 1:20:00 | |
Maybe you can get the medical status | 1:20:02 | |
from Alzatrine in English, if you like. | 1:20:07 | |
Now is the important thing. | 1:20:16 | |
This letter from my lawyer, Mary Manning Petras, | 1:20:41 | |
Mary Manning Petras. | 1:20:47 | |
It says here everything is okay, | 1:20:50 | |
and is going forward. | 1:20:52 | |
The meaning, of course, I should be patient, | 1:20:54 | |
and I don't worry. | 1:20:58 | |
She said, "I write to you to let you know | 1:21:05 | |
"that the plans we discussed are moving forward." | 1:21:08 | |
It's about my transfer and really is. | 1:21:12 | |
This paper from Colonel Sean Gleason. | 1:21:36 | |
It says that my transfer is going to be soon. | 1:21:41 | |
It means is that the Department of State | 1:21:45 | |
made decision to my transfer. | 1:21:47 | |
It means that I should meet delegation | 1:21:50 | |
from the country I'm going to, | 1:21:52 | |
but I haven't met any person | 1:21:54 | |
from any country that I'm going to go. | 1:21:57 | |
He said here, "And we have heard information | 1:22:09 | |
"about your pending release from guards or JDG, | 1:22:10 | |
"and I suspect that you will find out | 1:22:16 | |
"about your exact release date before we do." | 1:22:20 | |
Release date and he said here, | 1:22:24 | |
"I heard your studies that your transition | 1:22:28 | |
"is moving into final stages | 1:22:30 | |
"and it will not be much longer | 1:22:33 | |
"before you are released. | 1:22:35 | |
"This was much more concrete answers | 1:22:37 | |
"than we have received from | 1:22:40 | |
"the State Department in the past." | 1:22:42 | |
This letter was written in 15 December. | 1:22:44 | |
Here letter from Colonel Sean Gleason too. | 1:22:54 | |
It says, "I have very good news to share with you. | 1:22:57 | |
"The Justice Department has finalized negotiations | 1:23:02 | |
"with the country which will be receiving you." | 1:23:06 | |
Which country, I didn't know. | 1:23:09 | |
But here he said that the country | 1:23:11 | |
who are going to receive me. | 1:23:12 | |
"The Secretary of Defense is required | 1:23:21 | |
"by law to notify the US Congress | 1:23:24 | |
"30 days prior to Guantanamo release. | 1:23:27 | |
"And 30 days notification in your case | 1:23:33 | |
"was recently sent to the US Congress." | 1:23:35 | |
But where to go? | 1:23:41 | |
Who I see? Nothing, nothing. | 1:23:46 | |
Johnny | Why don't you hold that one up? | 1:23:50 |
Interviewer | Okay. | 1:24:09 |
- | Finally, this is the PRB decision that | 1:24:10 |
counselor group or I don't know what they call it, | 1:24:18 | |
the PRB group from the State. | 1:24:22 | |
This paper says exactly, | 1:24:31 | |
the PRB recommends that the detainee be transferred | 1:24:33 | |
to a country with appropriate support. | 1:24:38 | |
I came here with T-shirt and pants. | 1:24:43 | |
Including adequate medical care | 1:24:48 | |
subject to appropriate security assurances. | 1:24:53 | |
I'm not secured out here. | 1:24:57 | |
I came here to prison, four months. | 1:24:58 | |
Subject to appropriate securities assurances | 1:25:04 | |
as determined by the Guantanamo | 1:25:07 | |
Detainee Transfer Working Group. | 1:25:10 | |
Secure country, appropriate support including medicine, | 1:25:14 | |
subject to appropriate security assurances, | 1:25:22 | |
nothing, nothing, I got nothing. | 1:25:25 | |
I don't even have pension. | 1:25:30 | |
I don't even have compensation. | 1:25:32 | |
I don't have medical care. | 1:25:33 | |
I need money to go. | 1:25:35 | |
My daughter also needs money for her life. | 1:25:37 | |
I don't have anything. | 1:25:40 | |
And now, this Miami Herald. | 1:25:45 | |
Miami Herald, one example for what | 1:25:54 | |
the American media is doing for me. | 1:25:58 | |
I am not a terrorist. | 1:26:02 | |
I proved this by papers, by recommendations | 1:26:04 | |
from the commanders of Guantanamo. | 1:26:09 | |
What else I can do? | 1:26:11 | |
My charges are dismissed. | 1:26:12 | |
I should be released in 2008. | 1:26:16 | |
I should be released in 2012. | 1:26:20 | |
I am released in 2016. | 1:26:22 | |
What more they need from me? | 1:26:25 | |
I don't understand. | 1:26:27 | |
Here, I am a terrorist, bad person, you see? | 1:26:31 | |
That's it. | 1:26:47 | |
Interviewer | Could I ask one more question before we... | 1:26:50 |
Were you gonna meet with Bosnia officials | 1:26:54 | |
to talk about your status? | 1:27:01 | |
- | I need, yeah. | 1:27:04 |
Interviewer | Are you gonna meet them with them? | 1:27:05 |
- | I don't know to meet who. I don't know where to go. | 1:27:06 |
I don't know whom I meet. | 1:27:10 | |
It's like... | 1:27:13 | |
Sandra | We're working on that. | 1:27:14 |
Interviewer | Okay, I just wanted | 1:27:15 |
to put that on the record, okay. | 1:27:16 | |
Okay, thanks, nothing else, Tariq? | 1:27:18 | |
That's it? | 1:27:22 | |
- | That's what I'm actually going to say. | 1:27:23 |
Interviewer | Okay, thank you. | 1:27:25 |
Item Info
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